New job in Livonia or Novi, where to live. (Detroit: 2014, car insurance)

[Republic of Michigan]

The top places for you are as follows:

1) Wixom
2) Walled Lake
3) Novi
4) Northville
5) Plymouth
6) Canton

Done! Just pick one of these places.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by robin687

Sheesh, sorry for the "wasteland" comment. It was a poor choice of words and I certainly didn't mean for, or expect it to offend anyone, promise. Obviously these areas have a lot going for them, low crime rates, nice housing stock (I never said McMansions can't be pretty homes), access to retail and city amenities... If it's what you're looking for, go for it. It sounds like the OP is looking for some urban vibrancy which I don't consider the vast majority of the western burbs to have. Yes, there are pockets around the small towns out there (Northville, Plymouth, Milford to name a few) but they, in my opinion, have a small town feel and do not mirror the urban environment of the north Woodward burbs. Having said that, I still retain the opinion that the western burbs are largely characterized by unsustainable sprawling suburban developments... C'mon...someone even mentioned deer in their yards in Novi. Deer actually have room to survive between the developments. If that's not sprawl, I don't know what is... You want to walk through deer habitat in addition to strip mall parking lots on your way to the local dive? Sounds nice, but might take you a while.

Arther Digby Sellers did a poor job describing the folks you find around the different night life "hot spots" though. None of them are dominated by any certain group or demographic like you suggest. I find a good deal of diversity, especially in Ferndale and Detroit. Royal Oak most resembles a college town in terms of the demographic that's out at night, but even still there is a lot of different people out and about...

To say the western burbs are much safer than Ferndale is an overstatement sense Ferndale isn't unsafe to begin with. Sure the crime rate is statistically higher but that's because the crime that does happen in Ferndale is petty - not all crimes are equal. It's not like people are getting shot walking down the street or houses are being broken into left and right. As you would in any urban environment, stay alert, know your surroundings. I know plenty of gals that are perfectly comfortable being out in Ferndale alone at night (walking to and from work, entertainment or just my running freinds getting in an evening jog)... In fact, I'm not sure I know of anyone that's uncomfortable in Ferndale because of any crime.

I still would recommend Detroit over all other areas.

To be more clear:

Royal Oak, in the 90s, became the defacto "urban environment" of metro Detroit. This was at a time when the city proper had virtually nothing to recommend it as an urban center.

True enough, a lot of the businesses that would have remained downtown under different circumstances moved down Woodard.

However, it's not a 1=1 equation. Just because a lot if the businesses that potentially would have stayed in the city moved to the burbs down Woodard does not make the burbs the equivalent of the city. And to anyone who has ever experienced another urban environment, the Woodward corridor is likely to appear like just another suburb.

I honestly think Plymouth is probably the nicest downtown in metro Detroit right now; that doesn't mean a 28 year old from Tokyo is going to find it impressive, it just means it's possibly the best of a host of weak options.

The bright side is downtown Deyroit, while still an absolute mess by any reasonable standard, continues to improve, and at this point has a certain energy.

[robin687]

Originally Posted by canudigit

I don't think you can equate a thriving deer population with suburban sprawl. For example, Maumee, Ohio, an historical inner ring suburb of Toledo, Ohio that was built out long ago and is actually older than Toledo itself, has a large deer population, not because it is a sprawling city, because it is not, but because many of the neighborhoods were built in wooded areas that have been maintained as such for many years.

Our son lives in an older neighborhood in the Walled Lake area of Novi, but his neighborhood backs up to a densely wooded area that has been left in that natural state for many years, hence the thriving deer population. if this is sprawl, then it "sprawled" sometime in the 1940s.

Agreed. I figured this out with the deer in Chicago comments.

[dburbs1975]

I hope the job is really something incredible because compared to Tokyo, Detroit will be a huge disappointment to you. Why Detroit? Do you have family or a reason to take you there? There is an active Japanese population in the area around Farmington Hills/Novi/Northville.

Do not live in Ferndale/Royal Oak area, the commute will be hell. Anyways, Northville is prettier.

[MS313]

I apologize for some of the comments here. I don't know why people on these forums say sh*t like this guy above me to newcomers to try and keep them away smh. Even when you said you have job offers here and even made a comment about what kind of nightlife you like. If that's the kind of nightlife your looking for then I highly doubt you will be disappointed unless your literally expecting Detroit to be like Tokyo.

If you only plan on going out a couple times a month then I would worry more about the commute to work than the distance to nightlife. If you plan on commuting to Livonia then Midtown Detroit. With your price range you probably won't be able to get a spot downtown but Midtown is close enough and has enough things of it's own going on. Livonia isn't too far from Ann Arbor either if you want to go that route. If you plan on commuting to Novi then try the Royal Oak area and see if something is in your price range. You may find something in surrounding cities like Ferndale, Pleasant Ridge, Huntington Woods ect. You can also find some in between places as well.

Congrats on the job and welcome back.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

There is so much wrong with this post. First, downtown Plymouth is way better than downtown Ferndale in nearly every conceivable way, to the point that downtown Ferndale even exists.

Sir, when was the last time you've been to Ferndale? Ferndale has become a regional center for nightlife and restaurants. It has a SIGNIFICANT (relative to the Detroit area) concentration of nightlife hotspots. It is easily the 2nd or 3rd best nightlife spot behind Royal Oak and downtown Detroit. Plymouth DOES NOT HAVE NIGHTLIFE. It is for families - it has the best layout of any suburb downtown because of the public square/park in the middle of it, though.

BACK TO FERNDALE, Just on the east side of Woodward, south of Nine Mile Road, I can think of 5 nightlife hotspots including:

Woodward Avenue Brewery
THE WAB - WOODWARD AVENUE BREWERS

Sneaker's Pub
Sneakers Pub - Downtown Ferndale - Ferndale, MI | Yelp

Dino's
Home - Dino's Lounge

The Emory
the emory

The Loving Touch (a live music spot)
The Loving Touch › Get Felt.

And I am not going to get into the spots on West Nine Mile and Woodward north of Nine Mile.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

So are you looking for low key, neighborhood bars? The blue collar cities like Dearborn and Westland will have those, but they're populated with blue collar folk.

The Royal Oak and Ferndale bars are mostly filled with frat boy types (recent college grads who still think they're in college) and wannabe hipsters. Midtown is mostly hipsters (real and wannabe) and Gilbert-bot faux-yuppies that work for Quicken.

Midtown still has low key neighborhood bars such as Honest John's, the Miami Bar, the Temple Bar, the Bronx Bar, etc. Corktown has several such places, as well as downtown (Anchor Bar)

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by usroute10

Sir, when was the last time you've been to Ferndale? Ferndale has become a regional center for nightlife and restaurants. It has a SIGNIFICANT (relative to the Detroit area) concentration of nightlife hotspots. It is easily the 2nd or 3rd best nightlife spot behind Royal Oak and downtown Detroit. Plymouth DOES NOT HAVE NIGHTLIFE. It is for families - it has the best layout of any suburb downtown because of the public square/park in the middle of it, though.

BACK TO FERNDALE, Just on the east side of Woodward, south of Nine Mile Road, I can think of 5 nightlife hotspots including:

Woodward Avenue Brewery
THE WAB - WOODWARD AVENUE BREWERS

Sneaker's Pub
Sneakers Pub - Downtown Ferndale - Ferndale, MI | Yelp

Dino's
Home - Dino's Lounge

The Emory
the emory

The Loving Touch (a live music spot)
The Loving Touch › Get Felt.

And I am not going to get into the spots on West Nine Mile and Woodward north of Nine Mile.

How long have you lived there? People have been talking about Ferndale being the next hot spot for 15 years, which is approximately how old the WAB is.

I am guessing at least half the new spots simply took over where old spots used to be; there has always been a fair amount of dining and nightlife in Ferndale.

Plymouth definitely has some decent bars and a bunch of good restaurants, and even a few nightlife spots like the martini bar, but you are right that Fetndale has more nightlife.

I seriously doubt it is going to look like anything at all for someone moving from Tokyo.

Anyway, obviously, I forgot about Birmingham. I don't love Birmingham but there is little question that it is the most urban and cosmopolitan downtown in all if metro Detroit, excluding Detroit itself.

Anyway, taken all together, I stop feel like Plymouth has a more vibrant downtown than Feendale, but to each their own.

[reppin_the_847]

Once you get about 30 miles north of downtown Chicago (ie. Lake Forest, Libertyville, etc.), there are a lot of deer around. The Wisconsin border isn't that much further north at that point. WI has plenty of deer like MI.

Originally Posted by robin687

If true, that's insane. As a guy who grew up quite literally in the sticks of Northern Michigan, deer in the city completely blows my mind.

[usroute10]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

How long have you lived there? People have been talking about Ferndale being the next hot spot for 15 years, which is approximately how old the WAB is.

I am guessing at least half the new spots simply took over where old spots used to be; there has always been a fair amount of dining and nightlife in Ferndale.

Plymouth definitely has some decent bars and a bunch of good restaurants, and even a few nightlife spots like the martini bar, but you are right that Fetndale has more nightlife.

I seriously doubt it is going to look like anything at all for someone moving from Tokyo.

Anyway, obviously, I forgot about Birmingham. I don't love Birmingham but there is little question that it is the most urban and cosmopolitan downtown in all if metro Detroit, excluding Detroit itself.

Anyway, taken all together, I stop feel like Plymouth has a more vibrant downtown than Feendale, but to each their own.

I live in the Warrendale neighborhood of Detroit, I don't live in Ferndale, but I recognize what it is - but its no Toyko by far. As far as the most urban downtown in all of metro Detroit, you forget PONTIAC!!!!!