What would Detroit be like ten years from now? (Warren: rent, house)

[jonnynonos]

Of course it does.

Everything had consequences. The slaughter of 6 million Jews has consequences; 50 million dead in WWII has consequences, 4 million abortions a year had consequences.

My point is that an education is the only real way to pull oneself out of poverty, and it should be a talking point; instead, everything else under the sun is generally made a talking point.

And whether the jobs requiring a college degree are only 30 percent or 10 percent it doesn't really matter; they are generally the jobs that pay.

What are your ideas, anyway?

What do you propose people in Detroit should do or have do e to improve their lives? Or don't they need improving?

Like I said, aside from crime and the economic impact, it's really not an issue to me or most people.

[AuburnAL]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Here is the thing. All we hear about is the dysfunction of the black household....but guess what? In 1960 kids born out of wedlock to white women was less than 10%, while about 27% for black women. Today its about 30% for white women and 75% for black women. It is constantly argued that the out of wedlock birth rate is the root of many of the problems in the black community. Well....if its "human nature" and not "black nature" then the large jump in rates for whites should be reflected in increased rates of dropping out, crime, poverty, unemployment and the like.......but you find no such bump statistically for whites despite the tripling of the rate of out of wedlock births. Where is the rise of white dysfunction statistically that should be the human nature response for kids out of wedlock? So there is more going on than family dynamics at play here.

Give it 50 years. The black community of 1960 was probably doing a lot better than the white community today.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

Of course it does.

Everything had consequences. The slaughter of 6 million Jews has consequences; 50 million dead in WWII has consequences, 4 million abortions a year had consequences.

My point is that an education is the only real way to pull oneself out of poverty, and it should be a talking point; instead, everything else under the sun is generally made a talking point.

And whether the jobs requiring a college degree are only 30 percent or 10 percent it doesn't really matter; they are generally the jobs that pay.

What are your ideas, anyway?

What do you propose people in Detroit should do or have do e to improve their lives? Or don't they need improving?

Like I said, aside from crime and the economic impact, it's really not an issue to me or most people.

Oh really....despite educational attainment increasing from 2000 2013....median income has fallen in the united states. How does that work? People are getting more educated.....but the median income of people is falling. Yep...sure sounds like there is a direct correlation between increasing education in society and increased earning.

My solution is that the rich are holding on too much of the total income and wealth pie. They have to decrease their earning so that the middle can increase its earnings.

[Retroit]

While there are still far too many blacks living in poverty in Detroit, the growing percentage of blacks who are attaining middle- and upper-income levels leads me to believe that Detroit is nowhere close to becoming a 1980's Johannesburg, South Africa.

Racial integration is much further along than you think, I.S. My neighborhood is full of blacks and whites living side-by-side in harmony, going to the same schools, shopping at the same stores, eating at the same restaurants, working at the same jobs, etc. I can appreciate the fact that you want to relive the nostalgia of the 1960s, but the rest of the world has moved on.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by Retroit

While there are still far too many blacks living in poverty in Detroit, the growing percentage of blacks who are attaining middle- and upper-income levels leads me to believe that Detroit is nowhere close to becoming a 1980's Johannesburg, South Africa.

Racial integration is much further along than you think, I.S. My neighborhood is full of blacks and whites living side-by-side in harmony, going to the same schools, shopping at the same stores, eating at the same restaurants, working at the same jobs, etc. I can appreciate the fact that you want to relive the nostalgia of the 1960s, but the rest of the world has moved on.

Yes....what you say it true....it was true in Detroit in the 1970's as well....remember? Unfortunately in the Detroit area integration was simply the transition phase of a majority white area becoming a majority black area. East Detroit used to be nearly all white and now its transitioning to majority black. That transition will take a couple of decades....but the schools will be majority black way before that.....just like Southfield.

[Retroit]

But nowadays, a neighborhood becoming majority black does not mean that it will become a slum. There has been what I call "stratification" of blacks based on income, i.e. unlike the old days where few blacks were middle- and upper-income and the few that were lived in majority black areas, nowadays middle- and upper-income blacks live apart from lower-income blacks and from each other...and among middle- and upper-income whites. So there is no longer the segregation based on race like you would find in 60's or 70's Detroit of in South Africa. People nowadays are segregated based on income.

That is why when the minority of minorities try to make race a big issue, the majority of minorities roll their eyes, shake their heads, and move on to living their lives in integrated neighborhoods...and families.

[memph]

There is still "self segregation" by race (in large part a result of economic segregation), but it is true that it is decreasing.

Check out most cities here
Zoomable map: 2000 to 2010 demographic changes

The black and hispanic ghettos are generally becoming less black (or hispanic), white suburbs are becoming more diverse. Even gentrifying areas, while they might switch from minority neighbourhoods to majority white, are typically not as white dominated as majority white suburbs often are/were and once gentrification is more or less over, often begin to become more diverse as well.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by Retroit

But nowadays, a neighborhood becoming majority black does not mean that it will become a slum. There has been what I call "stratification" of blacks based on income, i.e. unlike the old days where few blacks were middle- and upper-income and the few that were lived in majority black areas, nowadays middle- and upper-income blacks live apart from lower-income blacks and from each other...and among middle- and upper-income whites. So there is no longer the segregation based on race like you would find in 60's or 70's Detroit of in South Africa. People nowadays are segregated based on income.

That is why when the minority of minorities try to make race a big issue, the majority of minorities roll their eyes, shake their heads, and move on to living their lives in integrated neighborhoods...and families.

What??? What "days" was that ever true? Housing values collapse when market demand for those communities collapse. In most areas whites are the dominant demand force that determines market value because they are the vast majority, plus their incomes are higher. Hence, what collapses a market is the loss of white demand which often follows a community becoming "too black". Right now its too early to tell what the fate of East Pointe will be. Attitudes HAVE changed for the positive. However, I still see East Pointe becoming majority black in a couple of decades. Harper Woods may have already turned that corner.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by memph

There is still "self segregation" by race (in large part a result of economic segregation), but it is true that it is decreasing.

Check out most cities here
Zoomable map: 2000 to 2010 demographic changes

The black and hispanic ghettos are generally becoming less black (or hispanic), white suburbs are becoming more diverse. Even gentrifying areas, while they might switch from minority neighbourhoods to majority white, are typically not as white dominated as majority white suburbs often are/were and once gentrification is more or less over, often begin to become more diverse as well.

The housing free for all fiasco of the last decade had one bright spot in that allowed people to move to place that they could not move to before....decreasing racial segregation in many places. I think the thing to look at are the schools...however. Once public schools go one direction the city or community will follow. There is still a high level, I would even say an increasing level, of school segregation by race, in America.

[jonnynonos]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

The housing free for all fiasco of the last decade had one bright spot in that allowed people to move to place that they could not move to before....decreasing racial segregation in many places. I think the thing to look at are the schools...however. Once public schools go one direction the city or community will follow. There is still a high level, I would even say an increasing level, of school segregation by race, in America.

I thought school was inconsequential.