Blacks in Livonia (Detroit, Dearborn, Redford: insurance, moving, suburbs)

[and the]

As I said in my post, I grew up in a very small town in SW Michigan that was easily 99% white. Everyone knew that people who looked different got a hard time from the cops. It doesn't help anyone to pretend that racism doesn't still exist.

It doesn't help to pretend that it's the the same in Livonia, a stone's throw outside Detroit, than it is in Podunk, just because there's a lot of white people in Livonia compared to Detroit.

It doesn't mean racial profiling doesn't happen.

What's your defininition of "racial profiling"?

[Michigan Refugee]

hi I am going to be honest here. I grew up in Livonia my parents still live there. I went to clarenceville schools my sister lives in livonia to be near our parents. But it is not like the 1970 any more the school have guards now and police officers. And I am not a racist I now live in North Carolina and the people here are great all the people and yes we have crime what state does not? I have found that soutnern states are more ethnically diverse then Michigan, Michigan is more segregated than the south her we all get allong people are people not white vs black! but no one wants to live in gang land or drug land just cause you see a black person does not mean it not a safe place. Livonia had its days and now it is over yes there is blacks,hispanics,arabas, indians and more but like I said people are people

[and the]

Michigan is more segregated than the south her we all get allong people are people not white vs black!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but one big reason for your "integration" is the fact that you have cross-district bussing. So, theoretically, I could spend a half million for a house in a nice area and pay the taxes that go with it, only to have my kid bussed to a school across town in someone else's neighborhood where the median home value is much less than what I paid for. No thanks.

[huckster]

You are certainly one naive individual.
Do you think for one instant that Livonia ia the only town in the U.S.
that has sought to keep minorities from coming to live there, in suburbia.
That is why there are FEDERAL laws against it.
In FACT, CASE IN POINT, WELL NOT REALLY BUT PERTINENT....
Henry Cisneros, ex-mayor of San Antonio and HUD Sec. has just began a pushto establish an agency to regulate what is called "blocking" in the real estate industry.
Generalizations , stereotyping, whatever you call it occur everyday.
You MUST be a caucasian and never been a victim of institutionalized racism.
So you cannot see this. You my friend are a simpleton and just like the people at the people at the Wal-mart attempted blockage to even counter
his argument and attempt to justify what has been going on for decades.
Just for the sake of fairness -I will state, I am not a black person and
incidentally Canton has the same reputation , of racial profiling.
Dearborn's ex mayor used to go on Tirades about not "allowing" blacks
to emigrate to "their" fair city.
I just do not see how you can be so blind.

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

Yo Adrian:

How can you generalize about all of the people in an entire city in three sentences? Do you think that all of those people are the same? Do you think that all of the various neighborhoods in Livonia are the same? It seems a bit absurd to attempt to paint all people as racst just becuase the have a particular address.

the reputation that Livona got arose due to the comments of two or three idiots at a council meeting involving a proposed Wall Mart. Please show me a city that does not have idiots who occasionally show up and say stupid things at a council meeting. three idiots do not speak for the entire population, nor can a rational person brand everyone in a certain city with a label based on the outspoken opinions of a few residents. Just because the media tries to manipulate you into believing that labels and generalizations are justified, does not mean that you should start making absurd assumptions. You need to think for yourself.


If you want to know what Livonia is like - sorry there is no answer. If you want to know what a specific area of Livonia is like - go to that area and find out.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by and the

If you want to find a bunch of European-Americans who left Detroit and resent a black guy from Detroit moving into their neighborhood, I'm sure you'll be able to find them. If you want to find a bunch of European-Americans who left Detroit and don't mind living next to a black guy who left Detroit for the same reasons they did, I'm sure you can find them too.

I think most people in any traditionally "white" suburb would rather have a black guy who keeps his lawn manicured and his kids in line for a neighbor than a Norweigan who doesn't. But as far as the "painfully honest" part: Hopefully you won't automatically see a racist in the first neighbor who complains to you that your garbage cans were out too early, too late, that your kids were being too loud, your dog pooped on their side of the "lawn border", it took you too long to pull the dandelion or that they don't like you watering their side of the lawn because it makes it green unevenly, but that's up to you.

Personally, I wouldn't leave Detroit for another city in Wayne County whether the city was Livonia or Highland Park. I'd look outside Wayne County.

It’s funny that people don’t think that way about Detroit. I have never heard “and the” rationalize if you want to find Detroiters who keep up their community and want to stay and make it a better place to live, that you can find them and such areas, as well as, the Detroiters who don’t keep up their areas and who are not interested in making Detroit a better place to live. However, “white” suburbs like Livonia, with its history of racism (which is as big a stench as anything that goes on in Detroit), always gets treated RATIONALLY....in that its always pointed out that you can find both....and choose the one you want.

Yes it’s true that in Livonia that you can find both kinds of people……if that’s what you are looking for. However, it’s equally true that you can find two types of people in the City of Detroit as well……if that’s what you are looking for. In regards to Detroit, though, it becomes IRRATIONAL. People feel they have to totally abandon the city. They don’t look to find the communities in the city were people take care of their homes…….”as good as white folks do”.

Obviously the reason that there is so much segregation in Detroit is the black folks don’t take care of their homes and lawns like white folks do…..to hear some folks tell it…..as white folks only want to live around folks who have their standards…..which blacks obviously don’t have…..lest the area would not be so residentially polarized.

[and the]

It’s funny that people don’t think that way about Detroit. I have never heard “and the” rationalize if you want to find Detroiters who keep up their community and want to stay and make it a better place to live, that you can find them and such areas, as well as, the Detroiters who don’t keep up their areas and who are not interested in making Detroit a better place to live.

The guy has kids and is looking for a good place to raise them. You won't hear me send someone like him to Detroit because there is no place in the city where I'd raise children. There IS no rationalizing Detroit for someone with kids who has options.

Obviously the reason that there is so much segregation in Detroit is the black folks don’t take care of their homes and lawns like white folks do…..to hear some folks tell it…..as white folks only want to live around folks who have their standards…..which blacks obviously don’t have…..lest the area would not be so residentially polarized.

....I don't think you'd be happy unless you could find a racist under every bed. Detroit sucks because too many people who "have their standards" left and/or want to leave. What's left now obviously doesn't have a "collective standard" to the point where Detroit is still a decent place to live. You're the one who's injecting race into the mix where it doesn't have to be. And you're the guy who's fleeing to Africa. But you don't share the blame for "urban flight" because white people screwed the city up beyond all salvation as soon as the first one left the city because he didn't want to stay after the WWII manufacturing contracts ran out, or because he didn't want to live that close to 12th and Clairmont anymore. YOU deserve to live where you want, but the rest of us have some kind of obligation to be part of the whole who stays in Detroit to keep it like it used to be. Sorry, but I don't share the "white flight" blame any more than you do. I moved BACK into the city and stayed there most of my adult life. My taxes will still be supporting Detroit long after you retire to Africa to find a way to blame the Tutsis and the Hutus on me.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by and the

The guy has kids and is looking for a good place to raise them. You won't hear me send someone like him to Detroit because there is no place in the city where I'd raise children. There IS no rationalizing Detroit for someone with kids who has options.



....I don't think you'd be happy unless you could find a racist under every bed. Detroit sucks because too many people who "have their standards" left and/or want to leave. What's left now obviously doesn't have a "collective standard" to the point where Detroit is still a decent place to live. You're the one who's injecting race into the mix where it doesn't have to be. And you're the guy who's fleeing to Africa. But you don't share the blame for "urban flight" because white people screwed the city up beyond all salvation as soon as the first one left the city because he didn't want to stay after the WWII manufacturing contracts ran out, or because he didn't want to live that close to 12th and Clairmont anymore. YOU deserve to live where you want, but the rest of us have some kind of obligation to be part of the whole who stays in Detroit to keep it like it used to be. Sorry, but I don't share the "white flight" blame any more than you do. I moved BACK into the city and stayed there most of my adult life. My taxes will still be supporting Detroit long after you retire to Africa to find a way to blame the Tutsis and the Hutus on me.

Either I am at the extreme of wanting to find a racist under every bed.....or you are on the extreme of not wanting to admit the degree that racism plays in all this.

The fact of the matter is that the topic of this thread is racial. What I don't understand is how did the people of Chicago, Boston, New York, Philly and others not take the same road a white Detroiters did in fleeing the city? The answer is that they drew the line within the city, in regards to red linning and other acts of racism that kept blacks away from certain areas. You are familiar with the history of housing discrimination are you not?

Its amazing that despite all the recorded history of racism in this nation, against blacks, by whites, the situation of blacks today, to here people like you tell it, is not related to this in any significant way. One does not have to look for a racist under every bed or rock to realize that the present is the creation of the past and hence that past racism played a large part of the geographic distribution of blacks in this nation.

[and the]

So what's the excuse now? A Black guy can't afford the house he wants because he didn't inherit money that was in the family since 5 generations before Grant took Richmond? Neither did I. Black youth can't get out of the ghetto because the military is segregated? Black youth can't succeed in Detroit because public school teachers don't care?

Where does personal responsibility enter the formula with you? Seems like you care more about rationalizing failure than objectively explaining it.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by and the

So what's the excuse now? A Black guy can't afford the house he wants because he didn't inherit money that was in the family since 5 generations before Grant took Richmond? Neither did I. Black youth can't get out of the ghetto because the military is segregated? Black youth can't succeed in Detroit because public school teachers don't care?

Where does personal responsibility enter the formula with you? Seems like you care more about rationalizing failure than objectively explaining it.

I don’t know how one can get more objective than simply stating the facts of history. There is nothing subjective in pointing out the facts. You are a photographer and I am a film maker. You like to simply take snapshots of moments in time and put it on display, minus the time/space continuum. I, on the other hand, integrate the time space continuum by capturing the actions and reactions that manifested in the moment in time of your still photo. Your snapshot allows too much room for conjecture in explaining what is happening and why and allows people to make assumptions based on preconceived nations. My methods, of including the realities of the time/space continuum of actions and reactions, remove the wiggle room for conjecture.

Would you rather watch a movie or simply look at photo of the last moment of the movie? Would you rather read the whole book or simply the last page and paragraph of it? Certainly if one is a person who seeks to understand, they will prefer the complete story. However, those who don’t, for some reason, really want to understand, will simply continue to choose to use as little facts as possible, so they can maximize the use of their own preconceived notions in drawing their own conclusions.

[and the]

I don’t know how one can get more objective than simply stating the facts of history. There is nothing subjective in pointing out the facts. You are a photographer and I am a film maker. You like to simply take snapshots of moments in time and put it on display, minus the time/space continuum. I, on the other hand, integrate the time space continuum by capturing the actions and reactions that manifested in the moment in time of your still photo. Your snapshot allows too much room for conjecture in explaining what is happening and why and allows people to make assumptions based on preconceived nations. My methods, of including the realities of the time/space continuum of actions and reactions, remove the wiggle room for conjecture.

Would you rather watch a movie or simply look at photo of the last moment of the movie? Would you rather read the whole book or simply the last page and paragraph of it? Certainly if one is a person who seeks to understand, they will prefer the complete story. However, those who don’t, for some reason, really want to understand, will simply continue to choose to use as little facts as possible, so they can maximize the use of their own preconceived notions in drawing their own conclusions.

That has to be one of the worst analogies you've tried so far.