Blacks in Livonia (Detroit, Alma: schools, living, shop)

[Indentured Servant]

Well, with all due respect…..I don’t give rats dropping about those studies. When you know you have not done anything wrong and are constantly pulled over……something is amiss. Granted, I don’t know what white males experience in regards to the police……I only know what I experienced and other black male friends. You seem think that people are only pulled over for speeding. Mine were usually not speeding. It was things like doing a rolling stop or having a necklace hanging from my rearview mirror or having something in my back windows dash board or not using my blinker…ect. They usually always wanted to search the car….and don’t let it be a group of us….that was an almost guarantee to be stopped. Again….I don’t know if I was part of any study……maybe……I don’t even know if the study used a scientific methodology…..but I know what my experiences have been.

That said…..unfortunately there is no shortage of black folks who will cry racism to get themselves out of trouble. Here in Minnesota some a-hole claimed that some people in his neighborhood burned a cross in his yard. Turns out he did it himself because he was mad at his white neighbors about something. I hate people who falsely claim racism because it discredits the all too real racist incidents out here. I have no sympathy for race baiter……even though you all might think me to be one of them.

[and the]

I hate people who falsely claim racism because it discredits the all too real racist incidents out here. I have no sympathy for race baiter……even though you all might think me to be one of them.

Well, with all due respect…..I don’t give rats dropping about those studies. When you know you have not done anything wrong and are constantly pulled over……something is amiss.

Nah, you couldn't be a race baiter when you speak about false claims of racism in one breath and speak of being "constantly" pulled over for no reason other than your race in another. "Constantly"? How do you ever get to work on time? Hyperbole is typically a tactic of a MASTER (race) baiter!

[Jeff Jarrett]

Livonia has one of the lowest crime/homicide rates in the country, so they must be doing something right.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by and the

Nah, you couldn't be a race baiter when you speak about false claims of racism in one breath and speak of being "constantly" pulled over for no reason other than your race in another. "Constantly"? How do you ever get to work on time? Hyperbole is typically a tactic of a MASTER (race) baiter!

Obviously I am not going to split hairs with you over semantics....as your goal is obviously to obfuscate to discredit a phenomenon that you refuse to aknowlege as being relevent or impactful in todays society. Stick your head in the sand all you want....cover your ears and close your eyes and shout...nah, nah na nah nah....I can't hear you....like a child.

[and the]

Obviously I am not going to split hairs with you over semantics....

Splitting hairs? You were perfectly willing to go along with the other poster being pulled over 75 times in a year and a half in Livonia until I callled you both on it. Now you tell us you were "constantly" pulled over.

I don't think that's semantics, I think that's an agenda.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by and the

Splitting hairs? You were perfectly willing to go along with the other poster being pulled over 75 times in a year and a half in Livonia until I callled you both on it. Now you tell us you were "constantly" pulled over.

I don't think that's semantics, I think that's an agenda.

No….you did not call me out on anything. I responded to a poster’s assertion that race could not be seen at night…..not the degree of veracity in the numbers of stops. The dissenter did not argue against the numbers, just the idea that a police officer could see a drivers race at night….that is what I attempted to debunk. You did not due your due diligence before you came to your erroneous conclusions about correcting me about something.

Look….you don’t want to accept that racism is a problem….I understand that. I understand your type. Been there and wasted my time with that before. I will simply continue to opine with my observations and analysis and you are free to obfuscate, filibuster, misdirect, stick your head in the sand, cover your ears and holler like a juvenile, split semantically hair, attempt to discredit my syntax, use ad hominem fallacies, use straw man fallacies, use red herring fallacies, use fallacies of composition, use snap shot reasoning, digress into person attacks, discredit the messenger to discredit the message, projection (accuse me of being guilty of that which you are guilty of), prevaricate, castigate, denigrate….ect. I know what you are going to do before you even do it….as your transparency and motives are as clear glass.

[BurtsBees]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

No….you did not call me out on anything. I responded to a poster’s assertion that race could not be seen at night…..not the degree of veracity in the numbers of stops. The dissenter did not argue against the numbers, just the idea that a police officer could see a drivers race at night….that is what I attempted to debunk. You did not due your due diligence before you came to your erroneous conclusions about correcting me about something.

Look….you don’t want to accept that racism is a problem….I understand that. I understand your type. Been there and wasted my time with that before. I will simply continue to opine with my observations and analysis and you are free to obfuscate, filibuster, misdirect, stick your head in the sand, cover your ears and holler like a juvenile, split semantically hair, attempt to discredit my syntax, use ad hominem fallacies, use straw man fallacies, use red herring fallacies, use fallacies of composition, use snap shot reasoning, digress into person attacks, discredit the messenger to discredit the message, projection (accuse me of being guilty of that which you are guilty of), prevaricate, castigate, denigrate….ect. I know what you are going to do before you even do it….as your transparency and motives are as clear glass.

Racism is a problem that affects all races and they all equally dish it out to one another. Issue is, that it is simply overplayed and used as an excuse when something doesnt go their way. I have a broken out tail-light and the damn cops keep pulling me over! Must be because Im black/hispanic/fill in your other race here.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by BurtsBees

Racism is a problem that affects all races and they all equally dish it out to one another. Issue is, that it is simply overplayed and used as an excuse when something doesnt go their way. I have a broken out tail-light and the damn cops keep pulling me over! Must be because Im black/hispanic/fill in your other race here.

Look….the problem with some whites is that they have a “supremacy” complex and or they see blacks as “inferior”, morally, cognitively, culturally, ethically, which hence, leads to their economic deprivation relative to whites. Therefore, it becomes problematic to maintain the idea of your “moral” and “righteousness” with the history of white racism. Consequently, not able to deny this history, the only thing left to do is to “normalize” this behavior and try to pretend like EVERYONE or race is equally guilty of this behavior. Such rationalization then allows the mind to maintain its sense of “supremacy” or others “inferiority” relative to their race.

Look….if after 300 years of recorded, legal codified racial abuse of black people, in this land called America, of the people, by the people and for the people, who were white people, you don’t expect a negative reaction….then you don’t understand human nature. You can’t treat a people like crap for centuries, and propagate the theory of their inferiority due to their race…..and expect there not to be resentment at the so-called “supreme” racial group that has been mistreating them. Some whites excuse their racism by using black resentment of their mistreatment, directed back at whites, as the moral equivalent. If you are attacked with violence and hence defend yourself with violence against your attacker….both acts are not morally equivalent.

There are black racist and people with hate in their heart….and this is counterproductive to their lives and what they say they desire. However, when you listen to their argument…..its rooted in how whites have mistreated blacks. Thus, one could argue that had not whites mistreated blacks so terribly, that much of this black racism would not exist. On the other hand, white racism is not rooted anything that blacks have done to whites, but rather, beliefs that blacks are inferior in intellect and behavior and hence are a threat to white society and culture. It’s not based on anything that blacks have actually done to whites historically. Granted, after 3 centuries of racial abuse, its manifested a cultural imprint upon black America and many whites use this “culture” as justification for not liking black people or rationalizing black inferiority. However, that “culture” was the resultant of past white mistreatment of blacks. Like I explained earlier, blacks in America are not practicing “African Culture” and normative customs and behaviors….or beliefs. Therefore, it was created in America under the duress of oppression. So it appears that present whites have a difficulty living with the creation of past whites.

All that said…..America has changed greatly in regards to race. I think that reality often lags reputation and that whites reputation on race is worse than their current reality. I do believe that blacks think current racism is more of a problem than it actually is……but that current racism is still a real problem. What people have to remember is that if only one in six whites in America are racist that represents one racist for every black person in the nation. Moreover, whites are in more positions of power and authority than are blacks, proportionately and absolutely, so there is more opportunity to do damage against blacks than black racism could every do against whites.

[and the]

Look….the problem with some whites is that they have a “supremacy” complex and or they see blacks as “inferior”, morally, cognitively, culturally, ethically, which hence, leads to their economic deprivation relative to whites.

Which ones and how many, and how have these people affected opportunities for young black Americans? Is it harder for a young black person to get into the college of his or her choice with competetive grades because of these people, or is it easier for a young black person to get into the college of his choice if he has the same or better grades than his white competition?

Same thing with government jobs, the number of which our new, half-African-American president promises to increase (the white Americans who elected him must have all been voting for the white half!). Harder or easier for African Americans to get that kind of a job with the same scores?

Therefore, it becomes problematic to maintain the idea of your “moral” and “righteousness” with the history of white racism.

I don't try to maintain any ideas of rightousness relative to racism, I'm just telling you what I see when I look around.

Look….if after 300 years of recorded, legal codified racial abuse of black people, in this land called America, of the people, by the people and for the people, who were white people, you don’t expect a negative reaction….then you don’t understand human nature.

What I expect is for more Black people in positions of leadership in politics, popular culture and even in the Ministry of Propaganda (Al and Jesse), to tell African-Americans that despite how their ancestors may have arrived in this country, and despite how close to slavery their family tree may be, there is no other country on earth where black people have better opportunities relative to how much effort for success they're willing to expend, INSTEAD of selling the idea that the reason for their inability to get out of the ghetto is because of white people. Or at least reverse the amount of time and resources they expend on the former idea relative to the latter. Until you do that, you have no credibility. None. It's been too long and we've spent too much money already. Your way rationalizes failure. Mine encourages success.

There are black racist and people with hate in their heart….and this is counterproductive to their lives and what they say they desire. However, when you listen to their argument…..its rooted in how whites have mistreated blacks.

Far too big of a leap to make. Maybe they just want to rationalize why the other guy has a better life. How do they explain all the successful black people they see? Instead of anomolies, maybe they should see role models.

Many poor whites used the military as a stepping stone to a better life. Why aren't more blacks doing the same? Do they see it as a sucker's bet? Have they been programmed to see the military as one step above slavery where black folks are used to fight the white man's wars? Rationalization. That's what it is in 2009. Too many want equal bank accounts without equal effort. For too many it's never been about "equal opportunity".

Thus, one could argue that had not whites mistreated blacks so terribly, that much of this black racism would not exist.

Thus one could also argue that since whites are the chosen victims of black criminals 45% of the time instead of 3% the other way around, we could argue that much of this white racism would not exist.

We all know WHY racism exists, what is in question is its relative effect on the person who is willing to expend the effort to succeed. What has American done to facilitate this? College admissions that favor Black Americans, government set aside contracts that favor Black Americans, civil service hiring that favors Black Americans through affirmative actions, and on and on.

I already know WHY racism exists on both sides. But in 2009, I'm beginning to doubt how it can be used to rationalize failure anymore.

Thus, one could argue that had not whites mistreated blacks so terribly, that much of this black racism would not exist. On the other hand, white racism is not rooted anything that blacks have done to whites, but rather, beliefs that blacks are inferior in intellect and behavior and hence are a threat to white society and culture.

Yeah, one could argue that if one wants to waste one's time......Don't waste your time trying to tell white folks raised in and around Detroit over the last 40 years about where white racism is rooted. That might fly in the UP, but not down here.

What is "White culture" as opposed to "African culture" as opposed to "American culture" by the way? Classical vs. Jazz? I don't practice "European culture", and my family has only been here for 3 generations. What is this "African culture" of which you speak?

All that said…..America has changed greatly in regards to race. I think that reality often lags reputation and that whites reputation on race is worse than their current reality. I do believe that blacks think current racism is more of a problem than it actually is……but that current racism is still a real problem. What people have to remember is that if only one in six whites in America are racist that represents one racist for every black person in the nation. Moreover, whites are in more positions of power and authority than are blacks, proportionately and absolutely, so there is more opportunity to do damage against blacks than black racism could every do against whites.

So where does the obligation to facilitate equal OPPORTUNITY lie vs the obligation to expend equal effort, and in what degree has one "side" fulfilled their obligation as compared to the other "side"?

[and the]

No….you did not call me out on anything. I responded to a poster’s assertion that race could not be seen at night…..not the degree of veracity in the numbers of stops. The dissenter did not argue against the numbers, just the idea that a police officer could see a drivers race at night….that is what I attempted to debunk. You did not due your due diligence before you came to your erroneous conclusions about correcting me about something.

Well, I apologize if I inferred something you didn't imply, but it seemed to me that you were willing to accept the ridiculous accusation of 75 stops for no reason with no tickets when you posted the following. I saw a pattern too, but I bet it wasn't the same pattern you saw.

Its amazing that clear pattern here. Why do so many people defend the racism....grant deferrence to it.....or deny the claims from blacks, yet, there stories of horror born from the experience with blacks in Detroit they never defend, never grant deferrence to and never deny?