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I am not anti-police. When police get criminals off the streets and into jail, that is good for the community.....but the root of the problem of crime is not the absence of police and hence the solution to crime will never be the presence of police. One has to look into changing many drug laws and taking the profit out of illegal drug activity, and other measures dealing with poverty, youth activity centers, and efforts to try to create a positive self image for many inner-city youth...community policing (where officers live in the community). A militarized police force, with a license to kill only breads resentment and revolt.
Changing laws isn't the way to go about stopping crime. It's about teaching right from wrong. Parenting your kids. Instilling that doing the right thing and helping people is far more rewarding then a life of criminal behavior. Teaching them to respect others and their property.
I don't support a "police state" as they call it, but I do support police officers on our streets. I take a certain level of comfort from driving through town and seeing police cars. I'm not nervous about it. I don't think, "Oh it must be a slow day out here with all these traffic stops." Stopping cars is not only a way of preventing trouble to the motoring public, but it's a means of citizen contact. Perhaps people that may be wanted for crimes. Inquire to your local department about ride-alongs. Many do them for citizens. It is eye opening. Seeing the other side is very beneficial to understanding the whole picture and understanding "why they do what they do."
They are militarized because they have to be. Gone are the times of police officers blowing whistles. I recently read an article showing that more officers have died in the line of duty over the past 13 years than the number of soldiers killed in combat overseas. There's a war at home. People going out and murdering cops. Look at New York recently. Tacoma, Wa a few years ago when 4 officers were gunned down while at a coffee house, Wyoming, MI today when an officer was shot. They have to be prepared. One step ahead of the people out to wage war against them. There's a target on their back just because of the job they do. If I lived under constant pressure that someone may be out to kill me, I'd have some pretty heavy duty equipment too.
Bottom line is police are not the problem. Neglecting to teach one's children what's right and what's wrong seems to be a bigger factor. Don't rob, don't break into houses, don't shoplift... Be civilized and respect others and their property.
And just a side note... I'm not saying there are bad police officers that do wrong. There are, and we should deal with them accordingly. But the vast majority of cops are out there because they care about what they do and they care about the wellbeing of the citizens they serve. There's teachers that are bad and fail to teach and some that abuse power and even their students. It's happened. But I don't see riots and protests asking for teacher reform. If there's a problem, you deal with it, and move on. It's not right to lump them all into a collective and judge them that way.
Changing laws isn't the way to go about stopping crime. It's about teaching right from wrong. Parenting your kids. Instilling that doing the right thing and helping people is far more rewarding then a life of criminal behavior. Teaching them to respect others and their property.
Your vision is of utopia. I agree that is the most ideal situation, but it has never existed anywhere. The ideal world would also be one without prejudice and without people believing that some races are superior to others. Yep.....utopia would be nice and we would not even need any laws people everyone would be self governed by righteousness. Alas, since that world does not exist, we need laws and policies to deal with human imperfections and deviations from desired behaviors.
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I don't support a "police state" as they call it, but I do support police officers on our streets. I take a certain level of comfort from driving through town and seeing police cars. I'm not nervous about it. I don't think, "Oh it must be a slow day out here with all these traffic stops." Stopping cars is not only a way of preventing trouble to the motoring public, but it's a means of citizen contact. Perhaps people that may be wanted for crimes. Inquire to your local department about ride-alongs. Many do them for citizens. It is eye opening. Seeing the other side is very beneficial to understanding the whole picture and understanding "why they do what they do."
That is what the police are there for. To make people like you feel protected and comfortable. I rarely hear of the police stopping a murder, rape or robbery as it is going down....unless a criminal tries to victimize an off duty cop and does not know it. There is just too many square miles to cover with a few hundred or thousand police, depending on the city. What they mostly due is show up after the fact, tape off the area and investigate.
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They are militarized because they have to be. Gone are the times of police officers blowing whistles. I recently read an article showing that more officers have died in the line of duty over the past 13 years than the number of soldiers killed in combat overseas. There's a war at home. People going out and murdering cops. Look at New York recently. Tacoma, Wa a few years ago when 4 officers were gunned down while at a coffee house, Wyoming, MI today when an officer was shot. They have to be prepared. One step ahead of the people out to wage war against them. There's a target on their back just because of the job they do. If I lived under constant pressure that someone may be out to kill me, I'd have some pretty heavy duty equipment too.
Again, its about laws. Laws allow citizens to get all kinds of guns and ammunition....and then the police have to top that to suppress the armed citizens.
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Bottom line is police are not the problem. Neglecting to teach one's children what's right and what's wrong seems to be a bigger factor. Don't rob, don't break into houses, don't shoplift... Be civilized and respect others and their property.
And neither are they the solution.
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And just a side note... I'm not saying there are bad police officers that do wrong. There are, and we should deal with them accordingly. But the vast majority of cops are out there because they care about what they do and they care about the wellbeing of the citizens they serve. There's teachers that are bad and fail to teach and some that abuse power and even their students. It's happened. But I don't see riots and protests asking for teacher reform. If there's a problem, you deal with it, and move on. It's not right to lump them all into a collective and judge them that way.
Of course that is true in any profession. Hell...there are priest who molest little children. However, the institution of policing is the issue. Whether you are good or bad cop, you are trained to shoot to kill. There are many incidents that can be resolved with less than the use of deadly force. Remember that 5 cops in Saginaw a couple of years back who shot and killed the guy who had a pocket knife? They were out in the middle of the parking lot. You mean nobody could have shot the guy in the legs? If he cannot walk he cannot get to anyone with his pocket knife. This happens far too often.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 01-31-2015 at 07:45 AM..
"Your vision is of utopia. I agree that is the most ideal situation, but it has never existed anywhere. The ideal world would also be one without prejudice and without people believing that some races are superior to others. Yep.....utopia would be nice and we would not even need any laws people everyone would be self governed by righteousness. Alas, since that world does not exist, we need laws and policies to deal with human imperfections and deviations from desired behaviors."
Point taken... I agree there will always be "those" people who choose crime over anything else but parenting is in my opinion going to be the biggest beneficial factor when it comes to bringing down crime. No, won't create utopia but it will help from our current situations.
"That is what the police are there for. To make people like you feel protected and comfortable. I rarely hear of the police stopping a murder, rape or robbery as it is going down....unless a criminal tries to victimize an off duty cop and does not know it. There is just too many square miles to cover with a few hundred or thousand police, depending on the city. What they mostly due is show up after the fact, tape off the area and investigate."
That's why I carry concealed. And you can't downplay proactive policing. I've seen it work and it takes those off the streets before they can victimize people.
"Again, its about laws. Laws allow citizens to get all kinds of guns and ammunition....and then the police have to top that to suppress the armed citizens."
I'm all for the right people having guns. What there needs to be is stricter allowance to who can purchase them. I, for one, like guns. Not only do I carry concealed, it's a hobby. Just like I love fishing, I enjoy shooting. Much like some people enjoy cars or others that are into Medieval memorabilia or whatever tickles their fancy.
"And neither are they the solution."
If society had the solution figured out we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. So I don't disagree with you there.
"Of course that is true in any profession. Hell...there are priest who molest little children. However, the institution of policing is the issue. Whether you are good or bad cop, you are trained to shoot to kill. There are many incidents that can be resolved with less than the use of deadly force. Remember that 5 cops in Saginaw a couple of years back who shot and killed the guy who had a pocket knife? They were out in the middle of the parking lot. You mean nobody could have shot the guy in the legs? If he cannot walk he cannot get to anyone with his pocket knife. This happens far too often."
Shoot to stop. Police are trained to shoot to stop. Stop the threat. Could it result in death, of course. But the goal is shoot to stop.
I don't condone that shooting in Saginaw, however shooting in the legs or any extremity for that matter is not plausible. Much like "shooting the gun out of his hand". There's this thing called fight or flight. It happens in stressful situations. You either get that adrenaline rush and power through the pain, or you're out. There's times when people have gotten shot in the chest of all places, and continue to fight back. When you get shot, there's a shock factor. You might not feel that pain yet because in the heat of the moment you're still in overdrive. An officer shooting the leg would have to think to himself, "ok, im gonna shoot him in the leg...maybe he'll stop, maybe he'll continue advancing, maybe I'll miss." Police are trained to shoot "center of mass". You are less likely to miss the shot rather than aiming precisely at a specific body part. Under stress, you don't have time. If someone is coming at you with a knife, you have a split second to make that choice to shoot or take what's coming. They are trained to aim center of mass to stop the advancement of the suspect. Death just happens to be an unfortunate side effect. Tasers aren't 100% effective, mace is not 100% effective. A firearm though is pretty darn near 100% effective and bringing that person to a stop before anyone can get hurt.
Again, if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it.....does it make any sound? Is the absence of evidence...evidence of absence? The black community is often like that proverbial forest. If white people are not there to hear the sounds.....then to them it does not make any sounds when blacks tell of the sounds. That is.....until the era of videos that allows sounds from the black forest to be seen and heard from suburbia.
Again, if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it.....does it make any sound? Is the absence of evidence...evidence of absence? The black community is often like that proverbial forest. If white people are not there to hear the sounds.....then to them it does not make any sounds when blacks tell of the sounds. That is.....until the era of videos that allows sounds from the black forest to be seen and heard from suburbia.
Cop pulling a gun on teens for having a snowball fight??? That is just fuc*ing ridiculous . That cop should be fired. I understand that not all cops or even most cops have a hot head and are ready to use unnecessary force. But it's the 10% or 20% or so that give good cops a bad rep, just like thugs in a neighborhood. And when cops who use unnecessary force don't get punished, you get an entire community that thinks the police are against them. And even more cops who think they can get away with BS, which turns the community against them even more. Just a big circle. I actually feel sorry for the 'good' police officers that just want to protect their community but are put in even more danger when some hot headed officer does sh*t like this and has people pissed off at him. The teens in this video will probably never feel the same about cops. Nobody can try and say this cop thought his life was in danger from a ball of frozen water.
Last edited by MS313; 02-03-2015 at 01:46 AM..
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. That cop should be fired. I understand that not all cops or even most cops have a hot head and are ready to use unnecessary force. But it's the 10% or 20% or so that give good cops a bad rep, just like thugs in a neighborhood. And when cops who use unnecessary force don't get punished, you get an entire community that thinks the police are against them. And even more cops who think they can get away with BS, which turns the community against them even more. Just a big circle. I actually feel sorry for the 'good' police officers that just want to protect their community but are put in even more danger when some hot headed officer does sh*t like this and has people pissed off at him. The teens in this video will probably never feel the same about cops. Nobody can try and say this cop thought his life was in danger from a ball of frozen water.
