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I find it hard to imagine how the police could have done been any more careful until they got an assessment of the situation which surely didn't happen in the first few seconds of the raid. The loss of life is definitely tragic, but truly accidental, I believe, and trying to place blame on someone won't accomplish much. If anything, I just wish there was no more crime in Detroit so police wouldn't have to do raids.
I think in the battle for “hearts and minds” our police and soldiers are losing. We send soldiers oversees to kill and die under made up and false pretext, we send drones in to bomb militant leaders, killing innocent women and children in the process, we over throw governments like Libya because of supposed tyrants, then the people are left in an even worse state of insecurity and anarchy. We have police in the US that has the license to kill, based on their subjective level of fear. They can make mistakes and kill innocent people, with no charges. When will this nation learn that such realities lose the hearts and minds of the people that they supposedly are trying to protect or liberate?
Police evolved in this country as a need of the rich to control the revolts of the working class. In the South, the original police were essentially “overseers” who served as a buffer between the slave population and land owners. The police were not created to protect the poor, but to contain the poor and protect the elites. If the elite increasingly fall victim to police “mistakes” and license to kill, the police would be forced to change their tactics and they would be held responsible for any death of elite. However, the poor have no such power and influence and the elite will accept the “collateral” damage among the poor so that the elite can feel safe and secure.
I think in the battle for “hearts and minds” our police and soldiers are losing. We send soldiers oversees to kill and die under made up and false pretext, we send drones in to bomb militant leaders, killing innocent women and children in the process, we over throw governments like Libya because of supposed tyrants, then the people are left in an even worse state of insecurity and anarchy. We have police in the US that has the license to kill, based on their subjective level of fear. They can make mistakes and kill innocent people, with no charges. When will this nation learn that such realities lose the hearts and minds of the people that they supposedly are trying to protect or liberate?
Police evolved in this country as a need of the rich to control the revolts of the working class. In the South, the original police were essentially “overseers” who served as a buffer between the slave population and land owners. The police were not created to protect the poor, but to contain the poor and protect the elites. If the elite increasingly fall victim to police “mistakes” and license to kill, the police would be forced to change their tactics and they would be held responsible for any death of elite. However, the poor have no such power and influence and the elite will accept the “collateral” damage among the poor so that the elite can feel safe and secure.
This is a different incident but in general if you put police officers in enough volatile situations eventually it's going to come up sixes, and they are not going to be on the losing end.
The police kill a total of about 400 people per year in the entire country, the overwhelming majority of which are noncontroversial.
If people are legitimately concerned over urban youths being murdered, there are much more relevant problems to focus on.
This is a different incident but in general if you put police officers in enough volatile situations eventually it's going to come up sixes, and they are not going to be on the losing end.
The police kill a total of about 400 people per year in the entire country, the overwhelming majority of which are noncontroversial.
If people are legitimately concerned over urban youths being murdered, there are much more relevant problems to focus on.
BS!!!!!
The police are not required to report the number of killings to any authority in many states. Hell....police in Texas probably kill that many in a year. The FBI, in their Uniform Crime Report, keeps track of all non-police homicides.....but not police killings because they are not required by the law to report it.
I think in the battle for “hearts and minds” our police and soldiers are losing. We send soldiers oversees to kill and die under made up and false pretext, we send drones in to bomb militant leaders, killing innocent women and children in the process, we over throw governments like Libya because of supposed tyrants, then the people are left in an even worse state of insecurity and anarchy. We have police in the US that has the license to kill, based on their subjective level of fear. They can make mistakes and kill innocent people, with no charges. When will this nation learn that such realities lose the hearts and minds of the people that they supposedly are trying to protect or liberate?
Police evolved in this country as a need of the rich to control the revolts of the working class. In the South, the original police were essentially “overseers” who served as a buffer between the slave population and land owners. The police were not created to protect the poor, but to contain the poor and protect the elites. If the elite increasingly fall victim to police “mistakes” and license to kill, the police would be forced to change their tactics and they would be held responsible for any death of elite. However, the poor have no such power and influence and the elite will accept the “collateral” damage among the poor so that the elite can feel safe and secure.
You're wrong about the battle over hearts and minds. The level of support of police and military is very high.
Do I support all our military actions? No, but overall our military can be credited with maintaining peace around the world more than any other country or organization. Without the threat of US military intervention, there would be a lot more "killing of innocent women and children" by dictators and terrorist groups. So you have to accept the lesser of two "evils" (and I don't consider the military an evil, but I'm assuming you do).
I also agree that sometimes police officers are overzealous in their actions, but I can appreciate their need for being so. First off, it takes an interventionist-type person to be a good police officer. Second, if anyone had to deal with the threats that a police officer has to, they would be just as overly-defensive. In other words, put yourself in their place. Activist critical of police undergoes use of force scenarios - FOX 10 News | fox10phoenix.com
As for the creation and evolution of police officers, there is some truth to what you say. However, just like your opinion of people's racial attitudes, you seem to be stuck in the past. When the schools and lunch counters in the south were integrated, who did they call to enforce the law?...police officers. When a poor person's house is being broken into, who do they call?...police officers. I've heard stories from my elderly Italian relatives about how the Irish police officers used to come through the neighborhood and whack the Italian kids with their battons for no reason (or so they say ). But times have changed. Now the police force is composed of many minorities that come from poor backgrounds. They cause as much "collateral damage" as the supposedly "rich, elite" white officers.
You're wrong about the battle over hearts and minds. The level of support of police and military is very high.
Do I support all our military actions? No, but overall our military can be credited with maintaining peace around the world more than any other country or organization. Without the threat of US military intervention, there would be a lot more "killing of innocent women and children" by dictators and terrorist groups. So you have to accept the lesser of two "evils" (and I don't consider the military an evil, but I'm assuming you do).
I also agree that sometimes police officers are overzealous in their actions, but I can appreciate their need for being so. First off, it takes an interventionist-type person to be a good police officer. Second, if anyone had to deal with the threats that a police officer has to, they would be just as overly-defensive. In other words, put yourself in their place. Activist critical of police undergoes use of force scenarios - FOX 10 News | fox10phoenix.com
As for the creation and evolution of police officers, there is some truth to what you say. However, just like your opinion of people's racial attitudes, you seem to be stuck in the past. When the schools and lunch counters in the south were integrated, who did they call to enforce the law?...police officers. When a poor person's house is being broken into, who do they call?...police officers. I've heard stories from my elderly Italian relatives about how the Irish police officers used to come through the neighborhood and whack the Italian kids with their battons for no reason (or so they say ). But times have changed. Now the police force is composed of many minorities that come from poor backgrounds. They cause as much "collateral damage" as the supposedly "rich, elite" white officers.
I am talking about the hearts and minds of the people who live where our military and police gets deployed. In the inner-city and the Middle East......police and soldiers are loosing the war for hearts and minds. Of course....War Hawks and those who favor a police state are happy. Excuse such behavior all you want....but it breads a negative reaction from the population where force is deployed.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 01-30-2015 at 09:08 AM..
It depends on who you choose to listen to. Do you listen to the inner city hoodlums who don't want the police or do you listen to the little old black ladies trapped in the ghetto who want more police? Do you listen to the Middle East terrorists that want to establish a Sharia law state where women are treated as sub-human and people of other religions are persecuted or do you listen to the Syrian refugees who ask "where are all the people who claim to be proponents of liberty but are nowhere to be found?"
Yes, negative people have negative attitudes toward peace and liberty. Positive people welcome it.
It depends on who you choose to listen to. Do you listen to the inner city hoodlums who don't want the police or do you listen to the little old black ladies trapped in the ghetto who want more police? Do you listen to the Middle East terrorists that want to establish a Sharia law state where women are treated as sub-human and people of other religions are persecuted or do you listen to the Syrian refugees who ask "where are all the people who claim to be proponents of liberty but are nowhere to be found?"
Yes, negative people have negative attitudes toward peace and liberty. Positive people welcome it.
How does more police help the little old lady? Unless you put a police officer in the house of every old lady, and make them their personal body guards....the police do not help the little old lady. However, that little old lady likely has grand kids who get pulled over and harassed by the police and she might fear that these police may kill her grandson. Besides, Detroit is 135 square miles....police cannot guard every house of an old lady.
I am not anti-police. When police get criminals off the streets and into jail, that is good for the community.....but the root of the problem of crime is not the absence of police and hence the solution to crime will never be the presence of police. One has to look into changing many drug laws and taking the profit out of illegal drug activity, and other measures dealing with poverty, youth activity centers, and efforts to try to create a positive self image for many inner-city youth...community policing (where officers live in the community). A militarized police force, with a license to kill only breads resentment and revolt.
In regards to the Middle East....Iraq was not under Sharria Law....neither was Libya and certainly not Iran (which we are just itching to invade and overthrow their government). These places then become unstable and thus breading ground for terrorism and anti-Western types, like Syria, Iraq and Libya are today.....but were not in the past until we decided to "liberate" them.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 01-30-2015 at 10:57 AM..
I find it hard to imagine how the police could have done been any more careful until they got an assessment of the situation which surely didn't happen in the first few seconds of the raid. The loss of life is definitely tragic, but truly accidental, I believe, and trying to place blame on someone won't accomplish much. If anything, I just wish there was no more crime in Detroit so police wouldn't have to do raids.
Well had the officer not fired the shot that little girl would probably be in school right now having fun with her friends. Maybe it's something I'm missing, I'm still wondering why he decided to shoot in the first place. I understand the situation he was in but I also understand that is where training comes into play, you can't run in a house popping off shots just because your doing a raid, and THIS right here is why.
I completely agree with your last sentence but that is just not the world we live in today.
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). But times have changed. Now the police force is composed of many minorities that come from poor backgrounds. They cause as much "collateral damage" as the supposedly "rich, elite" white officers.
