I am so tired of this sterotype on the city (Detroit: luxury, apts)

[downthathighway]

Originally Posted by and the

Many of them grew up in the city too, paid their dues and finally came to the conclusion that the City of Detroit wasn't as important as their family's future.

Name plenty of nice neighborhoods in Detroit with a grocery store where you would let your 10 year-old ride her bike around the block after the street lights come on.

No, they're supporting neighborhood businesses in THEIR neighborhoods....When I lived in Warrendale, I supported the Westwood Bakery, Sunflower Bakery, Warrendale meats, Farmer Jack's, Warrendale Hardware, Rollerdrome, Warrendale Video, Burger King (prior to the second armed robbery and homicide) Al's Barber Shop, Santia's Pizza, Harry's Department Store, Stromboli's..... After they all closed, there were only so many wigs, manicures, crappy used cars, reconditioned tires and cell phones that I needed to purchase and I left after the 4th B&E when my wife was pregnant and the public school "options" were out of the question. I still go to Chick's for the fish fry on Friday, but I make sure I'm armed.

Originally Posted by Acupunk

The constitution of the United States gives everyone the right to speak and write as much idiotic garbage as they want. I fail to see what you have done to earn that right. You come into my neighborhood armed and blame Detroit for ruining your quality of life, we would be much better off if you would just eat your fish in your own city.

Acupunk:
Reading posts by AndThe shows someone who 'paid their dues'
AndThe does not just 'come into' your neighborhood.
A former resident of Warrendale that left for a more comfortable area to raise the family. After 4 B&E's. And with poor choices for public education.
There are many more like him, look around. Warrendale is one of the 'last holdouts' of a real neighborhood, but has been declining, just at a later date than the rest of the city.
Some very sucessful businesses stayed long as they could and paid a high price in crime and taxes to do so.
I used to patronize many businesses there also. But, my personal choice, I will not carry a gun for protection.
Hard to blame those who do feel it necessary to be armed for self-protection.
And he is so right about wanting to live where his 10 year old child can play outside and ride a bike around without fear.

[detshen]

Originally Posted by downthathighway

Acupunk:
Reading posts by AndThe shows someone who 'paid their dues'
AndThe does not just 'come into' your neighborhood.
A former resident of Warrendale that left for a more comfortable area to raise the family. After 4 B&E's. And with poor choices for public education.
There are many more like him, look around. Warrendale is one of the 'last holdouts' of a real neighborhood, but has been declining, just at a later date than the rest of the city.
Some very sucessful businesses stayed long as they could and paid a high price in crime and taxes to do so.
I used to patronize many businesses there also. But, my personal choice, I will not carry a gun for protection.
Hard to blame those who do feel it necessary to be armed for self-protection.
And he is so right about wanting to live where his 10 year old child can play outside and ride a bike around without fear.

I have never criticized anyone for where they choose to live, I have never told anyone they should be living in Detroit. People should live wherever they feel most comfortable. All I ever done is ask people to try and understand how much Detroit bashing(even under the guise of honesty) hurts us. I have the right to feel afraid when someone who seems to hate Detroit and could likely see anything as a threat comes into the neighborhood I live in armed, it doesn't matter if it's a person who used to live their or not. I go to Chicks and I don't approve of anyone being armed even if they have a permit and it is their right. I apoligize for losing my temper in my post, that was wrong of me. I deleted it because I am better than that no matter how frustrated I get.

[detshen]

I do apoligize to And the for crossing the line, but I don't agree that "paying dues" means someone has "earned"(free speech is not earned) the right to criticize the city I live in and am fighting for.

[downthathighway]

Originally Posted by Acupunk

I have never criticized anyone for where they choose to live, I have never told anyone they should be living in Detroit. People should live wherever they feel most comfortable. All I ever done is ask people to try and understand how much Detroit bashing(even under the guise of honesty) hurts us. I have the right to feel afraid when someone who seems to hate Detroit and could likely see anything as a threat comes into the neighborhood I live in armed, it doesn't matter if it's a person who used to live their or not. I go to Chicks and I don't approve of anyone being armed even if they have a permit and it is their right. I apoligize for losing my temper in my post, that was wrong of me. I deleted it because I am better than that no matter how frustrated I get.

Good point about not feeling comfortable if an armed person is there. Sorry NRA types, but I'm one of those people who should never carry a gun and has the sense to know it.(bad temper also) Not all CCW for protection types are safe to be around others.
In fact, there are laws in some states such as TN that prohibit carrying weapons inside (in establ. that serve alchohol) And other states allow businesses to post signs at the door prohibiting weapons.

Many of us who have lived in Detroit ARE criticized for moving out and can provide an honest answer if asked.
There is no perfect city (utopia) and listing the negatives is not necessarily 'bashing'.
I've lived in several cities. Most recently Omaha. I think of it as 'Pleasantville' seeing all the families walking down the street w/ strollers and kids riding their bikes even after dark.Reminds me of the part of Detroit I grew up in.
But if I mention that taxes here are too high, watch how many jump to defend the area's honor. Just one negative observation.
Alas, there are far more issues than that with Detroit now.
My parents still live in Detroit. Can afford to move. But are attached to their 'address'. They know the hood' is not safe. 8+ break-ins that I know of, one carjacking from the driveway, one armed intruder. So now they lock themselves in and have a burgular alarm. Would they encourage their family to move to Detroit? NO. Adding the alarm was one of many concessions that they know its not desirable to move there now. And for 'hanging in there' they pay an income tax and over assessed property taxes. Services? Garbage pickup sporadic, street lights broken, no police response, etc.
Any complaints they make or their family makes would not be bashing, would it? Call it notes on problems that need improvement (badly)

[Huckleberry3911948]

2 ways to do it
deal with your stuff
or
shut everybody else up

[detshen]

Originally Posted by downthathighway

Good point about not feeling comfortable if an armed person is there. Sorry NRA types, but I'm one of those people who should never carry a gun and has the sense to know it.(bad temper also) Not all CCW for protection types are safe to be around others.
In fact, there are laws in some states such as TN that prohibit carrying weapons inside (in establ. that serve alchohol) And other states allow businesses to post signs at the door prohibiting weapons.

Many of us who have lived in Detroit ARE criticized for moving out and can provide an honest answer if asked.
There is no perfect city (utopia) and listing the negatives is not necessarily 'bashing'.
I've lived in several cities. Most recently Omaha. I think of it as 'Pleasantville' seeing all the families walking down the street w/ strollers and kids riding their bikes even after dark.Reminds me of the part of Detroit I grew up in.
But if I mention that taxes here are too high, watch how many jump to defend the area's honor. Just one negative observation.
Alas, there are far more issues than that with Detroit now.
My parents still live in Detroit. Can afford to move. But are attached to their 'address'. They know the hood' is not safe. 8+ break-ins that I know of, one carjacking from the driveway, one armed intruder. So now they lock themselves in and have a burgular alarm. Would they encourage their family to move to Detroit? NO. Adding the alarm was one of many concessions that they know its not desirable to move there now. And for 'hanging in there' they pay an income tax and over assessed property taxes. Services? Garbage pickup sporadic, street lights broken, no police response, etc.
Any complaints they make or their family makes would not be bashing, would it? Call it notes on problems that need improvement (badly)

Stating criticisms is not what I call "bashing". I have even been in agreement with many of the criticisms. The taxes are high, schools are bad and there are a lot of high crime areas, I know all that. I have lived in many other cities, and trust me, I don't wear rose colored glasses, I know the city has many problems.

When I say "bashing" I mean being only negative and refusing to acknowledge that there is anything positive about this city. When I write that I feel safe downtown and near WSU and people start posting the crime stats for the entire city and attacking me for recommending these as positive places, that is only seeing the negative. I love Detroit despite it's problems I support the local businesses and I am becoming involved with groups who wish to improve the city. If someone doesn't want to have anything to do with improving the city, that is fine, but I would appreciate it if they would stop the bashing. It's hard enough to fight the cities problems without all the negative people saying it's hopeless.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

Originally Posted by Acupunk

It sure is aggravating to deal with all this negative garbage. I haven't had the chance to visit St. Louis, but I would love to visit and when I do I will seek out someone like you who understands that your city has problems, but you still take pride in the good things. I bet you know many wonderful places to go in St. Louis and I hope you don't have to deal with negative suburbanites trying to ruin it for you

I don't actually live in St. Louis, but I've been there enough to know that it's a really cool place and not as dangerous as everybody says it is. My Dad grew up in St. Louis and he turned out just fine. I also still have family that lives in the area. My brother-in-law was born in the Alexian Brothers Hospital. The movie The Exorcist was based on an exorcism that happened there. It's pretty cool.

I love the city and it would be cool to live there someday, but as of right now I'm living with my parents in southeast Missouri.

If you visit there's all kinds of sites that list attractions. The City Museum was a blast, as was the Art Museum and the Purina Farms last time I went. We're also going May 31st for a Cardinals game.

It'd be nice to see Detroit someday, but I've never been there. Still, I don't think either city is as bad as people make it out to be.

[detshen]

I didn't know the movie was based on real events, cool!

I haven't really heard many bad things about St. Louis. I know it tends to end up on those "the most dangerous cities" lists, but I don't judge by those kinds of lists. I live in and spend most of my free time hanging out in Detroit by choice, I have enough money for the suburbs if I wanted to be there, I think that says a lot.

[STLCardsBlues1989]

City rankings can be confusing, because they count only city limits.

As far as most dangerous metros, the Detroit-Livonia metro is #1, whereas greater Detroit is like #7 most dangerous.

St. Louis is #121 most dangerous.

[detshen]

Originally Posted by fine_where_I_am

Exactly... even in a high crime city like Chicago, over half of it really is very safe. Don't think you can say the same about Detroit
People always make that argument that "crime happens in every big city" in trying to defend a rotting city, which is so unbelievably simplistic and irrelevant.

You wrote in another post that you have never even been to Detroit