The Detroit forum is starting to look a little like the Atlanta forum (crime rates, to buy)

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by drro

Now you have my interest. When did Seattle, San Francisco and San Jose have no-go areas and hoods? What caused them to improve? (I would guess the tech industries). Were they just as bad as the rustbelt and southern cities are in recent times?

Early 1970s.

They too suffered from urban "core rot."

The turn arounds during the 80s and 90s were not due to tech per se.

I was just a kid, but my recollection is they used redevelopment districts. The key was, they mixed preservation with redevelopment. They brought in more public transit. Pedestrian friendly zones were established. They encouraged night life.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

Early 1970s.

They too suffered from urban "core rot."

The turn arounds during the 80s and 90s were not due to tech per se.

I was just a kid, but my recollection is they used redevelopment districts. The key was, they mixed preservation with redevelopment. They brought in more public transit. Pedestrian friendly zones were established. They encouraged night life.

Manhattan, and particularly Times Square were horrible well into the 1980s, it was not anything like the Disney paradise you see today. It turned around dramatically in a few years. It was porn, pawn, and sex show central, now it is Disneyworld North.

[mgkeith]

I visited NYC a few times in the early and mid-seventies, and again in 1985. Times Square was seedy, but much of Manhattan was fantastic! Broadway was always beautiful. Even Times Square was awesome during New Years Eve in 1971, when our teen group visited there.

[drro]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

Early 1970s.

They too suffered from urban "core rot."

The turn arounds during the 80s and 90s were not due to tech per se.

I was just a kid, but my recollection is they used redevelopment districts. The key was, they mixed preservation with redevelopment. They brought in more public transit. Pedestrian friendly zones were established. They encouraged night life.

I can't find much footage on bad areas in those cities in the 70's. Perhaps the turn around of those cities can be an inspiration for Detroit and other rustbelt cities. New York in the 70's was about as bad as gets, there is some pretty interesting footage on youtube.

[mgkeith]

Originally Posted by drro

I can't find much footage on bad areas in those cities in the 70's. Perhaps the turn around of those cities can be an inspiration for Detroit and other rustbelt cities. New York in the 70's was about as bad as gets, there is some pretty interesting footage on youtube.

Well yes, the south Bronx was in horrible shape, and other parts of the Bronx were very nice back then. That has little to do with the whole of NYC, though.

[newengland17]

Originally Posted by mgkeith

Well yes, the south Bronx was in horrible shape, and other parts of the Bronx were very nice back then. That has little to do with the whole of NYC, though.

The "whole" of New York city was inches from bankruptcy, the only reason it didn't happen was because the fed poured a **** ton of money into it.

The city was totally crumbling, it wasn't just the Bronx.

[mgkeith]

I know. It wasn't showing yet. But we called it "the big wormy apple."

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by mgkeith

I visited NYC a few times in the early and mid-seventies, and again in 1985. Times Square was seedy, but much of Manhattan was fantastic! Broadway was always beautiful. Even Times Square was awesome during New Years Eve in 1971, when our teen group visited there.

We went to times square for new years eve/week every year (almost) from 1981 - 1988. While we thought it was awesome because it was lively and exciting, it was unbelievably seedy and very dangerous. Most of Manhattan was the same. We spent a lot of time running from or after people and some time paying "tolls" to walk down an otherwise empty street late at night. Times square was absolutely terrible and no one thought it could be fixed. I often heard New Yorkers saying many of the same things doubters have been saying about Detroit for the past ten years. That is why I roll my eyes when I hear it. (Well that plus the fact I personally know many of the things they are saying are simply untrue. )

[mgkeith]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

We went to times square for new years eve/week every year (almost) from 1981 - 1988. While we thought it was awesome because it was lively and exciting, it was unbelievably seedy and very dangerous. Most of Manhattan was the same. We spent a lot of time running from or after people and some time paying "tolls" to walk down an otherwise empty street late at night. Times square was absolutely terrible and no one thought it could be fixed. I often heard New Yorkers saying many of the same things doubters have been saying about Detroit for the past ten years. That is why I roll my eyes when I hear it. (Well that plus the fact I personally know many of the things they are saying are simply untrue. )

Very puzzling, Coldjensens. I went to various places all over Manhattan, Bronx, some of the other boroughs with friends from college who were residents, and adult relative on lower E. side. Never was threatened, needed to run from anyone, needed to pay tolls(?) etc. Puzzling. We walked all over the place, took trains, no problems. Perhaps because I was with people very familiar with the area?

[MS313]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

We went to times square for new years eve/week every year (almost) from 1981 - 1988. While we thought it was awesome because it was lively and exciting, it was unbelievably seedy and very dangerous. Most of Manhattan was the same. We spent a lot of time running from or after people and some time paying "tolls" to walk down an otherwise empty street late at night. Times square was absolutely terrible and no one thought it could be fixed. I often heard New Yorkers saying many of the same things doubters have been saying about Detroit for the past ten years. That is why I roll my eyes when I hear it. (Well that plus the fact I personally know many of the things they are saying are simply untrue. )

I heard about the "gang tolls" from a few people who were in NYC back then. That is craazzzy. They basically used the old mafia "for your protection" type crime on civilians. In the Chris Rock show "Everybody Hates Chris", little Chris Rock used to have to pay this guy everytime he walked through his block or whatever on the way to school just like a toll road. I thought it was a joke on the sitcom until people told me that was a regular occurrence in NYC back then and Chris Rock actually toned it down for the show, in real life it was the New York gangs that would charge you to walk through their turf unharmed. In Detroit that type of stuff you will easily get you shot (no matter who you are) even by a regular person, Detroiters have a serious reputation of taking the law into their own hands.