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Old 09-13-2017, 11:34 AM
 
2,209 posts, read 3,276,195 times
Reputation: 2238

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
We lag behind in retaining our college graduates but we are considerably ahead of most states in excellent universities and colleges per capita. We educate our kids very well, then they leave. With jobs here, they might stay.

Rather than negativity, lets see what we can offer Amazon.

We offer:

INexpensive quality Housing in great suburbs.
Amazing natural beauty. At least top 5 in the country.
Loads of fresh water. A growing concern.
We are recognized as the place that will be least impacted by Global Warming. Some studies say Michigan will be the only place that is still pleasant to live in.
Almost no realistic disaster threat. A big deal right now. We do not have hurricanes, earthquakes or wildfires, flooding is rare and minimal, no landslides, no recent riots, tidal waves - nope. Sharks will not eat you when you go swimming.
Well designed (but aging) infrastructure. (Nothing Money cannot fix - the bones are there)
Lots of available space.
Excellent airport access.
Decent crossroads location.
An up and coming and forward thinking city. (We have to think about the future, because the City immediate past is abysmal).
Charming historic architecture (some of which has not been torn down and replaced with parking lots).
A great collection of international festivals. Movement, Jazz, Youmacon, there is even a huge country western festival here.
Make it what you want it to be opportunity.
Uncrowded. Very little traffic and other crowded place concerns.
Great schools (outside the city).
Exemplary health care.
An unmatched capacity to do anything you could ever want done to a piece of metal.
Canadians. (Canadians are cool).
International ports.
Dan Gilbert.
Loads and loads of downtown housing about to come on the market.
Woodward dream cruise and classic car meets in small towns almost every night of the week.


What else?
"Dan Gilbert" made me laugh. Outside of Michigan, Dan Gilbert is seen as the buffoon owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers who threw a public temper tantrum (written in comic sans) after LeBron James bolted on his team (and looks to be bolting again because Gilbert ticked him off again).
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Old 09-13-2017, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,326 posts, read 75,323,905 times
Reputation: 38544
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTWflyer View Post
I feel like a likely front-runner in this race is Denver.
Denver is popular but it has some major issues. It has outgrown its infrastructure and will not catch up anytime soon. It has gotten very expensive. It has recently gotten a lot of media attention as the most polluted place outside of California. It has no room for a big complex of 33 buildings in the city. Plus I would be surprised if they want another corporate headquarters in the west. Why not just build more in Seattle?

I do not know, but I think they are looking for something very different from what they already have.

Denver offers awesome skiing, nice weather and legal pot. Also it is one of the most popular places for hordes of young people right now, both a plus and a detriment as it is growing too fast to plan and super costly as noted. I would have expected Houston to be near the top of the list, before last month. Boston and Chicago are probably top options, if they have room. One big thing is only run down cities like Cleveland and Detroit really have room for a 33 building complex in their urban core and those are the types of places where the real estate is sufficiently affordable. How much would 150 acres of downtown or maybe Buckhead Atlanta cost? IN Detroit, 150 acres of downtown waterfront is not impractical.

.
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:31 PM
 
95 posts, read 105,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
Feel free to post more up to date numbers. I doubt they have changed much in less than a decade.
Here's a 2017 study concluding that Ann Arbor is the most educated city in the nation: https://wallethub.com/edu/most-and-l...d-cities/6656/

Here's a 2015 study concluding that Metro Detroit has the third highest number of engineers per capita in the US: https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/12...luster/420102/

Detroit has always been a highly educated engineering/research/manufacturing based economy with auxiliary segments in marketing, legal, finance and design. Yes, there's a load of blue collar workers too, and they contribute a lot to the region's lower cost of living and culture, but it's disingenuous to point at stereotypes and anecdotal friends/family stories and conclude that smart people don't live in Metro Detroit, or that the labor pool for a Fortune 500 headquarters is "too small".



Here's a fun map of the location of Fortune 500 headquarters in the US: Visualize The Fortune 500

The Detroit-Chicago corridor has the the second highest number of HQs in the US, losing to the Northeast. This same Detroit-Chicago corridor is about to get 100 mph+ rail service, the only place in the US outside of the Northeast. If the rail service implemented properly, Detroit could have commuters and part-time teleworkers living Ypsilanti, Ann Arbor, Jackson, Marshall, Battle Creek, Kalamazoo, etc. etc. and be able to pull talent all across the southern third of Michigan. It's a game changer, and people should start thinking bigger about what Metro Detroit can do, and the moves it should be making.
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:42 PM
 
2,209 posts, read 3,276,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michikawa View Post
Here's a 2017 study concluding that Ann Arbor is the most educated city in the nation: https://wallethub.com/edu/most-and-l...d-cities/6656/

Here's a 2015 study concluding that Metro Detroit has the third highest number of engineers per capita in the US: https://www.citylab.com/life/2015/12...luster/420102/

Detroit has always been a highly educated engineering/research/manufacturing based economy with auxiliary segments in marketing, legal, finance and design. Yes, there's a load of blue collar workers too, and they contribute a lot to the region's lower cost of living and culture, but it's disingenuous to point at stereotypes and anecdotal friends/family stories and conclude that smart people don't live in Metro Detroit, or that the labor pool for a Fortune 500 headquarters is "too small".



Here's a fun map of the location of Fortune 500 headquarters in the US: Visualize The Fortune 500

The Detroit-Chicago corridor has the the second highest number of HQs in the US, losing to the Northeast. This same Detroit-Chicago corridor is about to get 100 mph+ rail service, the only place in the US outside of the Northeast. If the rail service implemented properly, Detroit could have commuters and part-time teleworkers living Ypsilanti, Ann Arbor, Jackson, Marshall, Battle Creek, Kalamazoo, etc. etc. and be able to pull talent all across the southern third of Michigan. It's a game changer, and people should start thinking bigger about what Metro Detroit can do, and the moves it should be making.
So, that Wallethub "study" was already debunked earlier in this thread as useless clickbait. Their methodology leans heavily on counting people with a high school diploma or "some" college as "educated." Amazon is looking for workers with a bachelor's or more.

It's not an anecdote -- the numbers show it. There are not enough college educated people in SE Michigan (or the state as a whole). It's a problem that's much larger than the Amazon HQ2 pipe dream.
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Old 09-13-2017, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Detroit
3,671 posts, read 5,508,743 times
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There are almost 3 million people in MI with college degrees with thousands more that graduate and find jobs in state or out of state every year. 50,000 jobs over an estimated 5-10 year time table will not at all be that hard. You keep talking about Amazon looking for an already educated population like Amazon is going to have 50,000 immediate job openings in 2018. It's not. Seniors in HS are still going to be able to land a job there by the time they graduate. There is over 50,000 grads from Michigan colleges every year, over a 5-10 year span? Please... I'm sure they will have little trouble finding people with a degree. And that's not even counting the countless people in MI who already have a degree but looking for a better job. Or the people that live out of state that are willing to move for a good job. I'm sure there are even 50,000 people across the country that would move to Metro Detroit for $75k+ a year.

What's the number one way for a city to gain college grads? Provide good paying jobs for college grads. Simple. If the talent pool wasn't big enough there wouldn't be college grads still out here looking for good jobs.
And again Auther, how are they expecting immediate job openings when this protect is going to take YEARS??? Not months... YEARS!

Last edited by MS313; 09-13-2017 at 04:00 PM..
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Old 09-13-2017, 04:18 PM
 
95 posts, read 105,854 times
Reputation: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
So, that Wallethub "study" was already debunked earlier in this thread as useless clickbait
No, it hasn't been debunked, you've just chosen not to acknowledge the work because it doesn't follow your narrative. Here it is, clear as day; Ann Arbor has a higher percentage of Bachelor's and Professional Degree holders than all other metro areas, and since all you've been arguing are percentages, this is pretty convincing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
It's not an anecdote -- the numbers show it
No your arguments are anecdotal, and rather caustic, and you've provided no numbers, but since I'm good with numbers, I'll work them for you.

Since we're talking about Detroit attracting the headquarters of a major technology company, let's compare the educational attainments and number of engineers degreed in the Detroit-Warren-Dearborn MSA, the Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue MSA, and the San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara MSA.

Assuming the populations of the 2010 census:
Detroit-Warren-Dearborn MSA - 4296250
Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue MSA - 3798902
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara MSA - 1836911

From the Richard Florida article, the percentage of degreed engineers in these MSAs are:
Detroit-Warren-Dearborn MSA - 12.6%
Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue MSA - 10.7%
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara MSA - 23.4%

Multiplying results in a total numbers of degreed engineers:
Detroit-Warren-Dearborn MSA - 541327
Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue MSA - 406482
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara MSA - 429837

This means that Metro Detroit has 20.6% more engineers than Silicon Valley, and 24.9% more engineers than Seattle, home of Amazon.com.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
There are not enough college educated people in SE Michigan (or the state as a whole).
Let's take this argument further, using the NYT article you provided earlier using the same MSA analysis.

Percentage of degree holding members of society:

Detroit-Warren-Dearborn MSA - 27.3%
Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue MSA - 37.0%
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara MSA - 45.3%

Multiplying results in a total numbers of degreed members of society:

Detroit-Warren-Dearborn MSA - 1172876
Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue MSA - 1405593
San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara MSA - 832120

This means that Metro Detroit has 29.1% more degreed peoples than Silicon Valley, and 19.8% fewer degreed peoples than Seattle, home of Amazon.com.

The nature of these degrees is beyond the scope of the information I have, but I can certainly say that Seattle does not have more engineers than Detroit, which is what I've been arguing.



And just for fun, let's compare Washington State vs Michigan, to really get a feel for just how lacking Michigan is in degreed peoples.

MI Pop (9883640) X MI degreed percentage (26.9%) = 2599397
WA Pop (5894121) X WA degreed percentage (32.9%) = 2310495

This means that Michigan has 11.1% more degreed people than Washington State. It would appear that from a pure numbers perspective, the degreed Michiganians are holding their own against the degreed Washingtonians.


I don't like being pedantic, and I do have a spin, but your arguments are bad and they misinform people.
Attached Thumbnails
Amazon is looking for a new HQ, and Detroit's in the running if we badger our representatives enough-aa_percentage.jpg  

Last edited by michikawa; 09-13-2017 at 04:26 PM..
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Old 09-13-2017, 04:30 PM
 
3,750 posts, read 3,348,357 times
Reputation: 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
Yeah they aren't talking about city pop (no one really uses city pop as it's a worthless metric) It's metro areas and urban areas one million or more.
In that case maybe Grand Rapids has a shot.
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Back in the Mitten. Formerly NC
3,830 posts, read 6,320,675 times
Reputation: 5349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers View Post
The inherent risk for whatever city "wins" the Amazon bid is they open Pandora's box for other major employers in the region. The existing employers will feel empowered to hold the local and state government over a barrel until they get a sweetheart tax deal. People forget that this is exactly what Gilbert did before Quicken relocated downtown. He threatened to move the entire company to Ohio until Granholm and Kwame coughed up a major tax incentive package.
They don't have to give everyone a tax break, but you have to start somewhere. Had Quicken not relocated downtown, Detroit would be no where near what it is today. Love Gilbert or hate Gilbert, but you cannot deny that moving QL downtown has significantly sped up Detroit's growth. And Amazon would do even more.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MS313 View Post
There are almost 3 million people in MI with college degrees with thousands more that graduate and find jobs in state or out of state every year. 50,000 jobs over an estimated 5-10 year time table will not at all be that hard. You keep talking about Amazon looking for an already educated population like Amazon is going to have 50,000 immediate job openings in 2018. It's not. Seniors in HS are still going to be able to land a job there by the time they graduate. There is over 50,000 grads from Michigan colleges every year, over a 5-10 year span? Please... I'm sure they will have little trouble finding people with a degree. And that's not even counting the countless people in MI who already have a degree but looking for a better job. Or the people that live out of state that are willing to move for a good job. I'm sure there are even 50,000 people across the country that would move to Metro Detroit for $75k+ a year.

What's the number one way for a city to gain college grads? Provide good paying jobs for college grads. Simple. If the talent pool wasn't big enough there wouldn't be college grads still out here looking for good jobs.
And again Auther, how are they expecting immediate job openings when this protect is going to take YEARS??? Not months... YEARS!
And some of those who go out of state only go out of necessity. Be underemployed (or possibly unemployed) or relocate is the option for many. As someone who graduated college in the mid-2000s, nearly everyone graduating at that time left the state, myself included. I had no desire to. I could either remain working at Kroger making $11.50/hour or I could move. I stayed at Kroger for a year post college before I decided I'd had enough and moved. If there were better jobs, we would be able to keep more college grads here. If we were able to attract a company like Amazon, it is likely that a significant number of former residents would return.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Louisville
5,036 posts, read 5,281,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turnerbro View Post
In that case maybe Grand Rapids has a shot.
While that would be awesome, I think I have a better shot at winning the powerball.
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Old 09-15-2017, 03:14 PM
 
9 posts, read 7,309 times
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I live in Philadelphia and am hoping Detroit gets chosen. Detroit is a great city that has remarkable valor and character. In fact my goal is to relocate there within a year and a half...I'm so thrilled what Mr. Dan Gilbert of Quicken Loans is doing for City of Detroit among other developers as well. I have a passion for urban renewal...in any city..particularly Detroit, Camden and Baltimore... I fell in love with Detroit back in the 60's...Motown...Diana Ross and The Supremes..The Queen of Soul Aretha Franklin, Madonna, Emimen..in fact my mom introduced me first. I was a child dancer kicking my way on the streets of Philly dancing to the tunes of Motown..winning street dance contests...then it was the riots that came about due to political greed and racial discord. Detroit and GM...the nation used to turn green with envy because many people migrated to get jobs at the car plants. So much has happened and deep in my heart I never gave up on hoping Detroit would rise again and shine brighter than any diamond. I feel the same for my birth place Camden, too. Yet I wish that I was a multi-millionaire and to invest heavily in urban infrastructure, low income high quality homes and middle class and poor communities. Its a united effort and God bless the ones who invest in building up a city that has always to me was and is a true Champion... the City of Detroit... Carlotta Ferguson aka The Pepper Viking
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