Amazon is looking for a new HQ, and Detroit's in the running if we badger our representatives enough (Grand Rapids: low income, 2015)

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by michikawa

While Detroit does have a lot of blue collar jobs, it's no slouch in engineering either, and is top ten for raw employment of engineers (Which Cities Have the Most Engineers? > ENGINEERING.com) and top ten for metro areas by patents granted (https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac...allcbsa_gd.htm).

I don't know what kind of skills Amazon is looking for in new graduates, but UMich has a top, if not the top, robotics program, MSU has a top supply chain program, and UMich, MSU, and MTU together graduate as many electrical engineers as any other state besides California (https://www.asee.org/papers-and-publ...mbersPart1.pdf). The only education metric really missing is the number of computer science graduates, but UMich still has a top ten Math department anyways, so there's still heavy hitters out there to recruit.

As far as management, the Metro Area has hundreds, if not thousands, of managers that have experience running supply chains and factories in every country of the world due to Automotive and its global reach.

Really the talent pool is here. The question is: Will Amazon have better employee retention in Metro Detroit than Seattle? Since Metro Detroit has specializing in keeping Salarymen/women and their wives/husbands happy for over a century, I'm going to argue yes. Schools are good, houses are big, costs are low, amenities aren't expensive, vacations aren't far away. Metro Detroit is the original 20th century company town, and Amazon is looking for a company town.

They are looking for people they can hire now. You can spin it all you want, but Detroit has a far lower proportion of college grads than other cities they are considering. The talent pool isn't big enough here.

[jaynarie]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

The Governor of Minnesota made a really good point that I did not think about. He said that Minnesota would not aggressively pursue Amazon because offer special breaks for the company to locate the head quarters there would be unfair to the home grown companies located their.

If Amazon comes to Detroit and gets all these special tax breaks and incentives, should not GM, Ford and other companies be given the same package? The flip side of this is that companies could start becoming like sports stadiums.....seeking tax abatement to stay or threaten to leave.

Couldn't you argue that the auto companies have received plenty of funds in the form of bail outs? I know most of it has been paid back, but billions of dollars never were. Just devil's advocating....


And I get the Governor's point. And it can make sense for his state. For the auto industry portion of Michigan, things have not fully recovered. Detroit is on its way and will do okay without Amazon. Flint and Saginaw have no hope until a major employer locates within a reasonable commuting distance. Getting the underemployed into proper positions will open up entry-level and service jobs suitable for the currently unemployed. Until all three cities are stabilized, all of Michigan will continue to suffer.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by jaynarie

Couldn't you argue that the auto companies have received plenty of funds in the form of bail outs? I know most of it has been paid back, but billions of dollars never were. Just devil's advocating....


And I get the Governor's point. And it can make sense for his state. For the auto industry portion of Michigan, things have not fully recovered. Detroit is on its way and will do okay without Amazon. Flint and Saginaw have no hope until a major employer locates within a reasonable commuting distance. Getting the underemployed into proper positions will open up entry-level and service jobs suitable for the currently unemployed. Until all three cities are stabilized, all of Michigan will continue to suffer.

The inherent risk for whatever city "wins" the Amazon bid is they open Pandora's box for other major employers in the region. The existing employers will feel empowered to hold the local and state government over a barrel until they get a sweetheart tax deal. People forget that this is exactly what Gilbert did before Quicken relocated downtown. He threatened to move the entire company to Ohio until Granholm and Kwame coughed up a major tax incentive package.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by jaynarie

Couldn't you argue that the auto companies have received plenty of funds in the form of bail outs? I know most of it has been paid back, but billions of dollars never were. Just devil's advocating....


And I get the Governor's point. And it can make sense for his state. For the auto industry portion of Michigan, things have not fully recovered. Detroit is on its way and will do okay without Amazon. Flint and Saginaw have no hope until a major employer locates within a reasonable commuting distance. Getting the underemployed into proper positions will open up entry-level and service jobs suitable for the currently unemployed. Until all three cities are stabilized, all of Michigan will continue to suffer.

Those were federal bailout dollars to the auto companies....not local or state bailout. That is an apples to oranges comparison.

I think it would be unfair, also, to home grown Michigan companies that could move their HQ other places but have stayed put without massive tax abatement. However, I thing home grown companies would benefit in the long run from the increased vitality that would result from having a company such as Amazon in the midst. Essentially, Detroit needs to become a more vibrant city in order to compete for the best and brightest young talent pool. I think the home grown companies would definitely benefit from that and if Amazon could help create that vitality then it would pay off even if they did not get the same tax abatement. However, in the long run, the corporations should all get the same deal.

[michikawa]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

They are looking for people they can hire now. You can spin it all you want, but Detroit has a far lower proportion of college grads than other cities they are considering. The talent pool isn't big enough here.

I don't know why you keep talking about proportions, LA had garbage proportions but is still a world leader in tons of industries requiring education, and I don't know how you think Fortune 500 companies operate, but every major metropolitan area in the US has a deep enough talent pool to draw from to keep their respective Fortune 500 companies located there. There's a reason why US cities are the richest in the world, and it's not just tax breaks.

Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Milwaukee, St. Louis, etc. etc. all have an executive class that are paid well above six-figures, and all have corporate ladder climbers that spend +100 hours a week hitting the stacks/pushing paper/working the phones. Even Toledo has enough depth to draw and to be home to multiple Fortune 500 companies. The East and West Coasts don't have a monopoly on talent, they have a monopoly on the industries that have the highest margins, and the last time I checked Amazon works in volume.

Southeast Michigan has enough educated talent, and Amazon isn't adding 50,000 jobs immediately. Yeah, if they're looking to hire 5,000 programmers/developers/code monkeys right off the bat, they're better off looking in Austin or Northern Virginia, but if they're looking to hire MBAs and researchers, Southeast Michigan is a national leader.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by michikawa

I don't know why you keep talking about proportions, LA had garbage proportions but is still a world leader in tons of industries requiring education, and I don't know how you think Fortune 500 companies operate, but every major metropolitan area in the US has a deep enough talent pool to draw from to keep their respective Fortune 500 companies located there. There's a reason why US cities are the richest in the world, and it's not just tax breaks.

Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Milwaukee, St. Louis, etc. etc. all have an executive class that are paid well above six-figures, and all have corporate ladder climbers that spend +100 hours a week hitting the stacks/pushing paper/working the phones. Even Toledo has enough depth to draw and to be home to multiple Fortune 500 companies. The East and West Coasts don't have a monopoly on talent, they have a monopoly on the industries that have the highest margins, and the last time I checked Amazon works in volume.

Southeast Michigan has enough educated talent, and Amazon isn't adding 50,000 jobs immediately. Yeah, if they're looking to hire 5,000 programmers/developers/code monkeys right off the bat, they're better off looking in Austin or Northern Virginia, but if they're looking to hire MBAs and researchers, Southeast Michigan is a national leader.

You are incorrect. Even when compared to other heartland cities, Southeast Michigan lags behind: Cities with the Most College-Educated Residents - Graphic - NYTimes.com

[michikawa]

These numbers are seven years old, and only show percentages.

[Coldjensens]

We lag behind in retaining our college graduates but we are considerably ahead of most states in excellent universities and colleges per capita. We educate our kids very well, then they leave. With jobs here, they might stay.

Rather than negativity, lets see what we can offer Amazon.

We offer:

INexpensive quality Housing in great suburbs.
Amazing natural beauty. At least top 5 in the country.
Loads of fresh water. A growing concern.
We are recognized as the place that will be least impacted by Global Warming. Some studies say Michigan will be the only place that is still pleasant to live in.
Almost no realistic disaster threat. A big deal right now. We do not have hurricanes, earthquakes or wildfires, flooding is rare and minimal, no landslides, no recent riots, tidal waves - nope. Sharks will not eat you when you go swimming.
Well designed (but aging) infrastructure. (Nothing Money cannot fix - the bones are there)
Lots of available space.
Excellent airport access.
Decent crossroads location.
An up and coming and forward thinking city. (We have to think about the future, because the City immediate past is abysmal).
Charming historic architecture (some of which has not been torn down and replaced with parking lots).
A great collection of international festivals. Movement, Jazz, Youmacon, there is even a huge country western festival here.
Make it what you want it to be opportunity.
Uncrowded. Very little traffic and other crowded place concerns.
Great schools (outside the city).
Exemplary health care.
An unmatched capacity to do anything you could ever want done to a piece of metal.
Canadians. (Canadians are cool).
International ports.
Dan Gilbert.
Loads and loads of downtown housing about to come on the market.
Woodward dream cruise and classic car meets in small towns almost every night of the week.


What else?

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by michikawa

These numbers are seven years old, and only show percentages.

Feel free to post more up to date numbers. I doubt they have changed much in less than a decade.

[DTWflyer]

I feel like a likely front-runner in this race is Denver.