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Old 11-04-2017, 11:18 PM
 
1,537 posts, read 1,226,523 times
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My post was about communication. In order to communicate effectively, it's necessary to process what others are saying and respond to their comment in a relevant manner.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:51 PM
 
142 posts, read 132,253 times
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This has gone off the rails, into a socio-political/racial discussion. It does not address the question of why there is a total difference in crime and blight within just one street.
Usually, these things have some bleed over. Crime usually crosses over into nearby nicer areas and usually, theres blight as well. City boundaries are rarely a total barrier to crime and blight on "the other side". Cross 8 Mile into Warren and its STILL pretty run down and its the roughest part of town. The first few blocks of Hazel Park are a bit blighted and there are plenty of vacant lots.Its much nicer north of 9 mile. So its a good question why there isnt that bleedover into GP, and people going on socio-political tangents are not answering the OPs real question.
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Old 11-14-2017, 06:51 AM
 
13,819 posts, read 8,236,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowdawg View Post
This has gone off the rails, into a socio-political/racial discussion. It does not address the question of why there is a total difference in crime and blight within just one street.
Usually, these things have some bleed over. Crime usually crosses over into nearby nicer areas and usually, theres blight as well. City boundaries are rarely a total barrier to crime and blight on "the other side". Cross 8 Mile into Warren and its STILL pretty run down and its the roughest part of town. The first few blocks of Hazel Park are a bit blighted and there are plenty of vacant lots.Its much nicer north of 9 mile. So its a good question why there isnt that bleedover into GP, and people going on socio-political tangents are not answering the OPs real question.
South Warren and Hazel Park are working class......the Grosse Points are not.
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Windsor Ontario/Colchester Ontario
1,614 posts, read 1,608,354 times
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The Gross Points hire private security to patrol their streets, especially near the Detroit borders! This obviously works pretty well.
I don't think it'll be that long before the areas of Detroit near the Points start to be reinvested in and start coming back from the brink. That whole stretch from DT to the Points along the East Riverfront has so much potential, and should be one of the best parts of the city to gentrify in the coming decade!

Last edited by North 42; 11-14-2017 at 08:31 AM..
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Old 11-14-2017, 08:37 AM
 
2,187 posts, read 2,215,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowdawg View Post
This has gone off the rails, into a socio-political/racial discussion. It does not address the question of why there is a total difference in crime and blight within just one street.
Usually, these things have some bleed over. Crime usually crosses over into nearby nicer areas and usually, theres blight as well. City boundaries are rarely a total barrier to crime and blight on "the other side". Cross 8 Mile into Warren and its STILL pretty run down and its the roughest part of town. The first few blocks of Hazel Park are a bit blighted and there are plenty of vacant lots.Its much nicer north of 9 mile. So its a good question why there isnt that bleedover into GP, and people going on socio-political tangents are not answering the OPs real question.
Actually I've always wondered about this as well, most places transition from run down to mansions but GP/Detroit is unique as if Beverly Hills was right next to Compton and divided by only one street. I think the socio-political answers are not tangents but very informative and provide a good answer to a question I've always had too.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:58 PM
 
2,990 posts, read 4,534,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fumbling View Post
Actually I've always wondered about this as well, most places transition from run down to mansions but GP/Detroit is unique as if Beverly Hills was right next to Compton and divided by only one street. I think the socio-political answers are not tangents but very informative and provide a good answer to a question I've always had too.
It's not really that unique. Twenty years ago it was the same dynamic along virtually any Detroit border. At least in pertaining to the OP's original question.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:07 AM
 
2,109 posts, read 2,239,307 times
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Literally crossing the street can make a world of difference: picture. It's a very good question, I've always wondered what keeps blight and crime from spreading from one block to another and why are there nice large houses located just across the street from blight and crime.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:30 AM
 
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There are neighborhoods in Detroit and in most large cities that are only a alley apart that are completely different. Why is there low crime in Sherwood Forest, Palmer Woods. A better example is Indian Village which is very similar to the Pointes, to the east, west and north you will find mid to high crime but very low crime in Indian Village. Why is there such low crime in Victoria Park and in all of the neighborhoods south of East Jefferson etc. Even in so called rough neighborhoods like zip codes 48224 and 48205 the only place some of the residents see crime and blight{They love their peaceful street} is on the news and gossip. Personally I don't think the original question was so profound, there are people and institutions getting rich studying the same thing for decades, just go to the library and read shelves full of books all about it. Matter of fact every other month most major newspapers cover it.

Last edited by ekman243; 11-15-2017 at 11:08 AM..
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Old 11-15-2017, 01:32 PM
 
142 posts, read 132,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekman243 View Post
There are neighborhoods in Detroit and in most large cities that are only a alley apart that are completely different. Why is there low crime in Sherwood Forest, Palmer Woods. A better example is Indian Village which is very similar to the Pointes, to the east, west and north you will find mid to high crime but very low crime in Indian Village. Why is there such low crime in Victoria Park and in all of the neighborhoods south of East Jefferson etc. Even in so called rough neighborhoods like zip codes 48224 and 48205 the only place some of the residents see crime and blight{They love their peaceful street} is on the news and gossip. Personally I don't think the original question was so profound, there are people and institutions getting rich studying the same thing for decades, just go to the library and read shelves full of books all about it. Matter of fact every other month most major newspapers cover it.
Actually, I just noticed this yesterday. I had to make a trip down 7 mile. from John R to Woodward, it is horrendous. Very few houses left and most were burned. Empty streets with a few charred houses. Going east from Woodward, the historic districts with big expensive houses. Palmer,Sherwood and Green acres have always had cb patrols and half the streets are barricaded from the main road, limiting access, which explains a lot. They have strategically closed off most streets from the main roads so that people who dont belong there (thieves, etc) would face more of a hurdle.
I think Victoria Park is the same way. gated off, limited access.
I do not believe this is the case with Grosse pointe
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Old 11-15-2017, 03:27 PM
 
163 posts, read 143,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tranquildreamer95 View Post
literally, you go in the grosse pointe park area and be in mansion wonderland full of huge cottage looking houses, then you go over one block into the city and boom, abandoned houses and graffiti. what keeps out the criminals from burning down the houses in grosse pointe park on devils night? what keeps out the crime and violence when it just a little road over? how does this work and happen?
This is about control and the individuals and institutions of Grosse Pointe have the desire, power, influence and resources to strongly control their environment. Grosse Pointe was, and still is, Metropolitan Detroit's "old money" suburb. While many perceive GP as being less exclusive and affluent than it used to be, such perception is more a product of other suburban areas rising in affluence rather than a decline of Grosse Pointe. For example, when my mother's family moved there in 1955, there really weren't many affluent suburban residential communities in Metropolitan Detroit. Suburbs like Novi, Rochester Hills and Troy did not exist. Bloomfield and Birmingham existed, but they were newer and far less established than Grosse Pointe. Brand new construction was unheard of in the farm country of Oakland and Commerce Townships; Northville and Plymouth were small towns in the sticks. GP was THE suburb in the 1950s and exclusively WASP; no diversity. This was also a time when the city of Detroit was overwhelmingly the center for jobs, retail, and entertainment, so Grosse Pointe was close to the action. Northland Mall had just opened and the GM Tech Center in Warren was under construction. Metro Detroit was on the precipice of great suburban expansion and white flight from the city but those dynamics were in nascent stages. Grosse Pointe had many fabulous, expansive estates with large numbers of staff and famous residents, along with a suite of exclusive and private clubs; these characteristics fueled outsider perceptions but the reality is that more than half the homes in Grosse Pointe were tidy, well-built residences you could find in a number of places, including Beverly Hills, Pleasant Ridge, Huntington Woods, East English Village, Birmingham, Sherwood Forest or the University District.

Fast forward to 2017. Grosse Pointe, like many older suburbs, has declined significantly in population due to a sizeable drop in household size (1955 was near the height of the Baby Boom; 3-4 kids per household was typical). Most of the large estates have been demolished, subdivided and rebuilt with high-end tract housing. Nobody keeps large numbers of staff anymore. The population has some diversity, but lack of affordable housing options in GP has really prevented true diversification. Grosse Pointers have watched Detroit's degradation with dismay and quietly vowed such disinvestment will never unravel their community; with their backs to the lake, they have taken a stand. As a result, the city of Detroit has largely eroded around the community of Grosse Pointe, which creates a stark contrast of beautifully maintained executive homes on tree-lined streets separated from blocks peppered with vacant lots, dilapidated housing and pocked shells of former retail strips by Alter Road and Mack Avenue.

While Detroit has declined, GP residents and leaders have invested strongly in homes, parks, business districts, schools and public safety to maintain their desirability. There was no riot in GP in 1967; one phone call from the Ford household to President Johnson ensured tanks rolled down Jefferson Avenue to stand guard at the border. GP leaders have also made some strategic decisions that limit access to non-residents, which effectively exclude many of lower socio-economic status: clubs are private and parks and schools are resident-only. Grosse Pointe education foundations, community foundations and housing foundations have all channeled the generous financial support of local families above and beyond property taxes and state subsidies to lift the community above others to improve aspects of the Grosse Pointe lifestyle. Such practices keep affluent families in and, in many cases, less affluent families out.

Some examples: (1) Parks - the parks are the most beautiful municipal recreation facilities you will ever see, but you'll only see them if you present a valid Park Pass and you'll only obtain a valid Park Pass if you can properly verify your residency status in the community. Enforcement is strict; a staffed gatehouse guards the entrance to each community's lakefront park. Access to the park is even more difficult for GP renters than homeowners (higher pass purchase and replacement costs, fewer guest privileges, etc.) (2) Schools - strict residency requirements apply to Grosse Pointe Public Schools and private investigators still comb the rolls and visit properties to ferret out any students whose guardians do not demonstrate legitimate residency. Grosse Pointe remains closed to Schools of Choice; you must live in the Grosse Pointe District to attend its schools. (3) Housing - many of the rental properties in Grosse Pointe Park were incorporated into the Grosse Pointe Housing Foundation program when they began to deteriorate and experience increased vacancy. Generous support from a few prominent families, particularly the Cotton Family (Meridian Health) supported rehabilitation and subsidized rents to reinvigorate those properties, but those rental subsidies were only awarded to certain individuals in various advanced stages of professional education who met strict academic requirements. The Cotton Family also purchased and demolished or re-purposed a number of businesses in the commercial district along Kercheval Avenue between Nottingham and Alter Roads. Demand for housing in Grosse Pointe Park simultaneously rebounded with the resurgence of downtown Detroit. The result is a much more vibrant community with much-improved housing and retail, but far fewer lower income and racially diverse households. As a result, black student enrollment has experienced a marked decline at schools that serve Grosse Pointe Park (e.g. Defer, Trombly, Maire, Pierce, South) in the past few years.

In summary, Grosse Pointe is old school and they like it that way; this is the bastion of preppies. Families, schools, church, kids, dogs and boats dominate the culture. Education and tradition are extremely important; change not so much. How long your family has lived there is more important than your bank account (which is not a polite topic of conversation, by the way). GP fancies itself Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket. The community treasures its history, its architecture and its prominence along the waterfront. There are no malls here, but several quaint shopping districts primarily along Mack and Kercheval Avenues. It is understated, low-key, timeless and committed to its self-preservation.
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