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Old 06-25-2018, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,253 posts, read 74,409,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig11152 View Post
Here was coldjensens explanation...
.
Just for the sake of filling in the missing Grosse Pointe Shores is missing but the most upscale of the Pointes.
There are a number of very nice cities missing (Grosse Pointe city was missing but I added it, I did not catch Shores). This is an imperfect list, but it popped up in a matter of seconds on a search and is complete enough for OP's purposes I think. Really more a demonstration of how extensive the answer to the question is. It took like 30 seconds to delete the icky and borderline suburbs. There are not many. Most of our suburbs are nice. many are very nice and some are outstanding. This is where Detroit outperforms most other metros, maybe all of them. Our suburbs are great and there is a wide variety of types that are super nice which is not really found much of anywhere else to the extent it is here (AFAIK). Other places have lots of nice suburbs, but in most places they are mostly the same. The awesome thing about Metro Detroit is the variety of nice burbs, not just the number or niceness level.
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:03 PM
 
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[quote=craig11152;52303495]Here was coldjensens explanation...
.


I had read that already, thank you. It didn't quite make sense, so I wanted to emphasize how subjective it is--- to people who are unfamiliar with the metro area.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:43 PM
 
1,969 posts, read 2,817,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaynarie View Post
The vast majority of Metro Detroit was never really negatively affected by Detroit's decline. (The growth was stagnated in the general area, but very few suburbs went into decline). Oakland County remains one of the wealthiest counties in the country and it doesn't even include all of the 'wealthy' suburbs- like the Grosse Pointes and Northville. Most of the 'bad' suburbs aren't even bad- they are just blue collar and lower middle class, therefore undesirable. There are only a very small handful of suburbs I would feel unsafe in any time of day. Every major city will have a few of those. Honestly, Detroit may have fewer than most...
That is because "The vast majority of Metro Detroit was positively affected by Detroit's decline." If some wealth/white people had actually remained in the city, the suburbs would not have been so sprawling and robust.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,253 posts, read 74,409,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
That is because "The vast majority of Metro Detroit was positively affected by Detroit's decline." If some wealth/white people had actually remained in the city, the suburbs would not have been so sprawling and robust.
Yeah like Illitch. If only he had remained in the city it all would have been hunky dory. Like most cities, Detroit's primary problem was the loss of the middle class people. All of them Black or White. It was not the uber wealthy. Yes most of the middle class people who left were white, that is because most of the middle class was white. Still the middle Class black people left too. The problem is people leaving, not what color their skin is. People left because the City became unappealing to them. There are 100 reasons for that.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:02 AM
 
1,969 posts, read 2,817,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Yeah like Illitch. If only he had remained in the city it all would have been hunky dory. Like most cities, Detroit's primary problem was the loss of the middle class people. All of them Black or White. It was not the uber wealthy. Yes most of the middle class people who left were white, that is because most of the middle class was white. Still the middle Class black people left too. The problem is people leaving, not what color their skin is. People left because the City became unappealing to them. There are 100 reasons for that.
Just face facts, sir. White Flight was real. While Whites were bailing from Detroit in the 1960's, 1970's, and 1980's, the black population of Detroit was increasing. It is what it is. See below:


1950 Detroit White Population - 1,545,000
1950 Detroit Black Population - 303,000


2000 Detroit White Population - 117,000
2000 Detroit Black Population - 776,000


1950 census (See page 13)
https://www2.census.gov/library/publ...21v3p2ch02.pdf


2000 census
2000 Census of Detroit, Michigan - CensusViewer

So I guess the nearly 1/2 million black people that Detroit gained from 1950 to 2000 were all poor.
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Old 06-27-2018, 11:26 AM
 
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It is said that those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. In Metro Detroit it seems that people do not remember what REALLY happened and how and why things became so polarized. Hence, is it any wonder that Detroit's "comeback" has demographic optics that make it look like history is repeating itself all over?


I agree with route10. The suburbs gain came as a the corollary of Detroit's pain. Attitudes of the past helped lower density in the city and increase growth and wealth in the suburbs.
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,253 posts, read 74,409,923 times
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My parents and most of their friends lived in Detroit and left. It had nothing to do with race. It had to do with wanting a bit of a yard, a SFR, and less crowding and crime. None of which were within their reach in the City. Staying in the City at that time, they were looking at perpetual apartment living, houses in the City were beyond their means. The moved to Livonia some time around 1957.

I do recall my mom saying something about being scared by a tank driving down her street because of a riot or civil unrest and for her that was the straw, but later people told me that was impossible. There were no tanks used in the City in the 1950s. I cannot ask her what she was referring to because she is dead and my Dad has no memory of that. He says they moved because a house with a yard was affordable in Livonia but not in Detroit.

However many people will not accept that. No they say, your real reason for moving was race - becasue that better fits our worldview. no one moves out of a city because it it too expensive. That simply does not happen because it is contrary to our world view. Certainly if you were white and moved out of Detroit then you are a racist. That is the only reason no matter what you think or say your reasons were. - - It gets kind of old and really has no credibility.

White flight is obviously real and it happened to some extent, but it is exaggerated, and to claim it is the sole, or primary cause of Detroit's decline, is both naive and a bit ludicrous.
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,787 posts, read 2,381,511 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
My parents and most of their friends lived in Detroit and left. It had nothing to do with race. ...
Oh, right, I'm sure it had nothing to do with race. I'm curious. Did any black residents of Detroit want a house with a yard in Livonia? I assume they were able to obtain those loans just fine back in 1957, if they had a steady income and credit history?

I agree that there are lots of causes to Detroit's decline, and I'd agree that saying it is all race is ignorant of the issues of poor planning, greater suburbanization, the perception of suburban safety, and Late-20th Century cultural desires for excessive space and giant box stores, but to pretend racism wasn't part of the problem is also pretty ignorant.
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Old 06-27-2018, 12:42 PM
 
2,365 posts, read 1,743,432 times
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the more buffer cities there are the better
Detroit borders redford, Dearborn, Dearborn heights, Inkster
I wouldn't live in any of these places if you paid me

once you get a city away, it improves
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Old 06-27-2018, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,253 posts, read 74,409,923 times
Reputation: 38263
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky2balive View Post
the more buffer cities there are the better
Detroit borders redford, Dearborn, Dearborn heights, Inkster
I wouldn't live in any of these places if you paid me

once you get a city away, it improves
(Downriver waving our arms around again and carrying signs that say "We exist" ) Melvindale and River Rouge are icky too, don't forget our contributions.


Dearborn is a perfectly fine place to live. The parts that touch Detroit are a bit icky, but the rest of it is quite decent.
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