I can't believe I miss Michigan (Detroit, Warren: credit, work, sick)

[exit18b]

I was born and raised in Northern NJ. I went to the University of Maryland. After college I lived in D.C. and Balto. We moved to Southfield in 1999. We just moved to Shaker Heights (Cleveland). I can't believe that my wife and I miss metro Detroit. My wife went to Metro Detroit kicking and screaming but the place became home. We enjoyed all the of the trills of big cities (NY and D.C.) w/o the hustle. Some of the best kept secrets are listed below:

Arts -
DIA - World Class $8 bucks
Charles H. Wright - Largest African American musuem in the country
Zoo - Top Notch

Sports -
Major College Football - UM, MSU
Pro Sports - Lions, Tigers, Red Wings & Pistons

Education -
UM, MSU,
Great public schools - Birmingham, Troy,

Recreation -
THE LAKES, Up North, GOLFERS PARADISE

Metro Detroit/Michigan needs a good Public Relations director to promote the area.

[illmatic774]

It's okay to miss the actual place. It's the situations that we are faced with that turns people off from Michigan, and this just a terrible period in Detroit's history, whether it be the economy (which dictates crime and stress), or the constant beating that this place takes from the media.

But you are correct in asserting/implying that this is a region without direction and leadership. Very few are willing to speak up for the area, and it only takes a couple of regional boosters/celebrity endorsement to help improve the city image, even if just a little bit.

[Scraper Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by illmatic774

It's okay to miss the actual place. It's the situations that we are faced with that turns people off from Michigan, and this just a terrible period in Detroit's history, whether it be the economy (which dictates crime and stress), or the constant beating that this place takes from the media.

But you are correct in asserting/implying that this is a region without direction and leadership. Very few are willing to speak up for the area, and it only takes a couple of regional boosters/celebrity endorsement to help improve the city image, even if just a little bit.

Michigan's economy must be bad, when you have to have Jeff Daniels touting economic development in the state, as well as acting as an agent to promote businesses and people to move to Michigan.

I haven't been to the Detroit area since 2001, but I can say that much of the metro area is very nice. The actual city gives it a bad name, in my opinion.

[illmatic774]

the entire area should hold some of the reputation that the city holds, as the region as a whole is responsible for the condition that the main city is in. Failure to invest in true mass transit, alienation of the core for "cores" of their own (Big Beaver and Southfield for example) are huge reasons why the real core has deteriorated... Even sprawling-ass Atlanta has a great core due to regional cooperation. Another example being that this is the most divisive subforum on this whole damn site; it's sickening.

Everyone needs to take the blame and not just the "animals" in Detroit city limits.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by illmatic774

It's okay to miss the actual place. It's the situations that we are faced with that turns people off from Michigan, and this just a terrible period in Detroit's history, whether it be the economy (which dictates crime and stress), or the constant beating that this place takes from the media.

But you are correct in asserting/implying that this is a region without direction and leadership. Very few are willing to speak up for the area, and it only takes a couple of regional boosters/celebrity endorsement to help improve the city image, even if just a little bit.

Leadership problems? No kidding!

When I lived here in the 1960s-1988 Michigan was a donar state (pays more federal taxes than recieves federal benefits). we reutend in 2005 and now 20 years later we still have one of the same senators (he must have a lot of seniority by now) and we are still a donor state. In fact, the federal government hardly seems to have realized that michigan has been in an intesne recession fo rhte past 3 years. They are just starting to notice, and there has been no talk about providing any assistance.

[One Thousand]

Zoo's awesome... except the last time I was there in '03 or so, some kid was on the run with a girl in pursuit screaming,"he took my chain, he took my chain!"

Is the zoo even in Detroit? I thought it was just outside?

The DIA is absolutely amazing... not to mention the Science Center was pretty fun last time I went.

Henry Ford/Greenfield Village, Cranbrook's museums, Fort Wayne, Ford mansion, Belle Isle (in the winter... too much violence in the summer)... the Detroit area does have a lot of great stuff.

However, it's the people that make a city... and right now, the culture of entitlement that controls Detroit is also in control of the state.

I'm homesick. I miss the Detroit area, but I'm just not willing to pay the cost of living near Detroit. I'm not willing to listen, day in and out, about how labor makes or breaks a company when the whole auto industry is sinking and they still want more. I'm not willing to hear my mother-in-law who's an overpaid Detroit teacher claim that she deserves more. I'm not willing to have my home's water line drawing money directly from my wallet to the city of Detroit because the water dept. becomes more and more incompetent with each day. I'm not willing to have another ticket arrive in the mail citing me for a traffic incident that doesn't involve me but requires me to go downtown to prove my innocence. I'm not willing to deal with racists everytime I go down to the city-county building for business. I'm not willing to watch the city council members make excuses any more for why they are failure.

Originally Posted by illmatic774

the entire area should hold some of the reputation that the city holds, as the region as a whole is responsible for the condition that the main city is in.

Typical Detroit sense of entitlement. It can't be that '67 riot scared the businesses out. It can't be that racist Young scared whites out. It can't be that when a decent mayor-- Archer-- was trying to make deals with the 'burbs, that the citizens and council called him "too white."

What underlies what you're saying there is that you think the burbs should bend to accomodate Detroit. However, as I remember, everyone was getting along quite well the last time I was there without venturing into the wasteland.

I'll tell you why Detroit has it's reputation: Detroiters-- not all, but most-- will sooner step over something while saying "someone needs to pick that up" than take care of it themselves.

Tearing down houses, setting up cameras to record drug deals, towing a burnt out car away are all things within the power of individuals. However, Detroiters need to have a committee to do it. They can't just go into the burnt out house next door and start pulling sheetrock, they need twenty neighbors to talk about it for a month before they act... and then the action is generally calling the city.

If there's an abandoned lot next door, most Detroiters will let it grow... expecting the incompetent politicians to handle it.

In the areas where the citizens do these things? Everybody says,"I'd live in that area." But those places are so few and far between-- just like people who work rather than talk-- that Detroit has a just reputation... and the only thing that can be said about the 'burbs is that they abandoned that cess pool.

Thank. Goo' night.

[illmatic774]

Entitlement? I'm just saying that all of the blame should not be placed on the city and it's residents. Even if the politicians are incompetent there are limited resources to get **** done. And Coleman Young didn't scare the whites out; the whites were leaving in droves anyway. But you are right in the sense that he was more harm than good; and don't get me started on the city clownsil.

Last I checked the failure to set up some sort of real mass transit was due to the region as a whole, both the city and the burbs. We'll see if everthing is fine in the Southfields, Livonias, Troys, Rochester Hills, and (already seeing it in) Warrens when the regional cannibalism catches up to them, and the people start filing out for bumble**** Livingston County and everywhere in between Detroit and Flint. How long will it take until Warren adopts the same social stigma as Detroit?

In Metro Detroit there is no unity; every city/township/village fends for itself and that, ultimately, will spell failure for the ENTIRE region. L. Brooks Patterson has not exactly been cooperating either. His agenda is to sprawl everything the **** out and develop new communities while the long-established county seat is suffering as bad as ever. Everything in that region is wasteful outside of Woodward Ave (Birminghams, ROyal Oaks etc.).

We are all aware of Detroit's problems, but don't come here and act like the burbs' **** don't stink. And if it doesn't stink now then it surely will later.

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by illmatic774

Entitlement? I'm just saying that all of the blame should not be placed on the city and it's residents. Even if the politicians are incompetent there are limited resources to get **** done.

But if you claim that the 'burbs are "supposed to help" and "should help" Detroit with its problems, then that's a sense of entitlement. The problem is "supposed." The question becomes "why?" Why should they? Why are they supposed to? The answer is something akin to "Well, because" and that answer is never really completed because the rest of it is "because you're supposed to treat people in a certain way."

No. I treat people in a way that's consistent with law because there are consequences for doing otherwise. However, outside of the law, I treat people in a way that's respectful because they reciprocate. However, when we talk about Detroit and it's citizens, they don't want to treat the 'burbs in a way that develops a mutually rewarding relationship... they don't want to make deals with the 'burbs that we feel are beneficial to us too. They just want us to give without reciprocating what we feel is adequate.

Now, because the citizens of Detroit believe that the 'burbs should just "give" without an amount of compensation they feel is fair, the 'burbs exercise their freedom and refuse to cooperate.

With that in mind, who deserves the credit for Detroit being a ****hole? The 'burbs who have no reason to help? Or, the Detroiters who fail to recognize that they're not in a position to bargain, nor do they deserve the help of the 'burbs without giving enough to make the 'burbs motivated to work together?

You see? When you say "the 'burbs aren't doing enough," you fully neglect the fact that the 'burbs don't owe anything and are in the superior negotiating position. When you're in the inferior position but demand equal treatment, you are demanding position that you haven't earned. That's why it's entitlement.


You mention "politicians being incompetent" and imply the 'burbs should work around them. However, the politicians, nowhere more clearly than Detroit, are a manifestation of the people... The politicians are the brain of the body of the citizenry.

There's no reason to deal with the city in some indirect route because the city, by who they elect, tell the world "this is my brain. Communicate with it."

Incompetent politicians are the manifestation of an incompetent people. It's math.

Originally Posted by ill

Last I checked the failure to set up some sort of real mass transit was due to the region as a whole, both the city and the burbs. We'll see if everthing is fine in the Southfields, Livonias, Troys, Rochester Hills, and (already seeing it in) Warrens when the regional cannibalism catches up to them, and the people start filing out for bumble**** Livingston County and everywhere in between Detroit and Flint. How long will it take until Warren adopts the same social stigma as Detroit?

Yeah, but the whole region doesn't need mass transit. Detroit does.

Sure, the rest of the area will fall to blight, but so what? It's the people that make a society. The societies of those areas aren't going to see the fall of their cities... Their leaving will be the fall.

The citizens of Detroit have a simple choice: Grow up. Take responsibility for themselves. Elect politicians who are about substance (like Archer... or, heaven forbid, a qualified white person if a qualified black person isn't available) rather than show (like Kilpatrick.) Make offers that are lucrative for the 'burbs to participate... Or, rot for eternity... angry and miserable that others aren't making deals that are disadvantageous to the 'burbs.

Originally Posted by ill

In Metro Detroit there is no unity; every city/township/village fends for itself

Unity is a load of bull****. The people who preach unity are the people who are trying to get over on you because when you think we're "united" then you'll not complain when they f'ck you.

The concept of unity is a tool used by bad people to lubricate you to take more from you than they deserve. Unity motivates you to give up more than you should because of something that doesn't really exist.

Today is a new day. Unity-- real unity that doesn't allow one person to take advantage of another-- requires the feeling of mutual benefit. If one party doesn't feel the benefit, then there's no such thing as unity-- there's only exploitation.

Now, explain why any city, etc. of metro Detroit should allow themselves to be exploited?

Originally Posted by ill

and that, ultimately, will spell failure for the ENTIRE region. L. Brooks Patterson has not exactly been cooperating either. His agenda is to sprawl everything the **** out and develop new communities while the long-established county seat is suffering as bad as ever.

Well, if you bend over long enough, eventually someone's going to stick something in there...

[randomguymike]

Originally Posted by One Thousand

But if you claim that the 'burbs are "supposed to help" and "should help" Detroit with its problems, then that's a sense of entitlement. The problem is "supposed." The question becomes "why?" Why should they? Why are they supposed to? The answer is something akin to "Well, because" and that answer is never really completed because the rest of it is "because you're supposed to treat people in a certain way."


Yeah, but the whole region doesn't need mass transit. Detroit does.

Sure, the rest of the area will fall to blight, but so what? It's the people that make a society. The societies of those areas aren't going to see the fall of their cities... Their leaving will be the fall.

Another example of the painfully abundant attitude in Metro Detroit that make me somewhat happy my company of 3000 Michigan employees is failning and forcing me to look outside the state for work.

Amazingly, every one of the places I'm looking at has a thriving downtown (and I don't mean like downtown Ann Arbor or Royal Oak, I mean a real downtown).

There's a boatload of young, talented people leaving the state in droves and it is things like a vibrant downtown and mass transit to and from the suburbs that will keep them here, not low taxes and a NIMBY midset. I hated the fact that there was not a signle viable mass transit alternative to get from Royal Oak to downtown for the NCAA tourney and Tiger's Opening Day. It's another reason I look at somewhere like Chicago where I can live and get around from stadiums to downtown without having to deal with $4 gas and worrying about a driver.

[One Thousand]

Originally Posted by randomguymike

Another example of the painfully abundant attitude in Metro Detroit ...

Well, maybe. However, I've always been open-minded (when I lived there) to reasons I should change. However, there are never reasons given... just an implication "just because..."

What I'd like to see, and the people of metro would like, I believe, is to know "why" should the 'burbs accomodate Detroit? Hmm... What about this one? Why doesn't Detroit accomodate the 'burbs?

I suspect, until that question is answered in a way that's reasonable to the citizens, there'll be no reason to change.