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Old 09-06-2020, 04:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Well done View Post
I know that people from the east Coast leave "R's" out of words- All of the time. At other times these lost "R's" end up in other words where they do not belong, in words like "Warshington."
Or at the end of the word.. My mom's name was Darla. Her friend from NYC pronounced it "Dollar".
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Old 09-08-2020, 12:42 PM
 
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How humorous and very cute. Dollar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dport7674 View Post
Or at the end of the word.. My mom's name was Darla. Her friend from NYC pronounced it "Dollar".
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Old 09-08-2020, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,701 posts, read 79,339,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dport7674 View Post
Or at the end of the word.. My mom's name was Darla. Her friend from NYC pronounced it "Dollar".
My FIL is that way "Donnar went to Pahk the cah in the back yaaad." There is another R or two still missing from that sentence, but it would invariably turn up someplace later.
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Old 09-13-2020, 08:26 PM
 
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Can Detroit ever make a comeback?
I like to think of myself as an optimist and I always tend to think this way, with a sort of ,
" Tomorrow is going to be a better day" attitude. It is just the way I am, or, " I live in a great country and
at the best time ever, in the history of humanity," sort of thinking.
I do not ever romanticize history. I would never want to go back in time, if I could, and live in another era. Who would want to back and live in a more primitive time? If I could. I like the future and its' prospects of a better life. Even this is beginning to be difficult to believe too. Things being as they are.
Naivete is not one of my traits though. I cannot drive around Detroit and see so much ruin and believe,
thoroughly believe to my very marrow, that Detroit will ever recover its' dominance of the manufacturing sector. It is difficult, very difficult to see inner city decay on such a broad scale and remain positive about a complete recovery for the City. I am surely fooling myself to believe such a thing?
I would like to have confidence, surely, of course. As surely as I am writing this post, I wish for a complete economic recovery of Detroit. For more reasons than mere optimism.

There is a very old country saying from Texas. The Texas of a long time ago. In this fable three guys were walking down a long dirt road and very tired, when one looks off into the distance ahead and begins to complain about his exhaustion and so badly desires- " If only he had a horse."
One of the three replied.
" If wishes were only Horses -we'd all, be riding."

I could only honestly- without optimism or pessimism- think, there could be a complete turnaround in Detroit with complete objectivity - If there were only some sign of substantial, meaningful work, jobs, as there once were. Maybe this economic condition is only obscured by the future. Time is only an illusion, Buddhists believe. I will believe it too when I recognize at least something other than only, my own optimism. Detroit arrived in just the right time in history to have achieved what it did. Perhaps we
need is another World War, only then might a complete remobilization occur? No,no. This is no solution.
Only this, can honestly be said of Detroit's condition without rose colored lenses - " I have seen it worse."
It surely has seen far,far, better times.
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Old 09-14-2020, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,701 posts, read 79,339,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Well done View Post
Can Detroit ever make a comeback?

Only this, can honestly be said of Detroit's condition without rose colored lenses - " I have seen it worse."
It surely has seen far,far, better times.
I have not seen it better. Not in my memory. i know it was better in the 1930s and 1940s. It was considered the most beautiful city in America. But I never saw it as I was not born.

I cannot remember the 1960s or early 1970s, but since the late 1970s, the city has never been better. Yes, some specific neighborhoods were probably better, but the city as a whole, or at least the part of the city that attracts people to come work, shop, play or just visit has never been better than it is now in my lifetime or at least the lifetime of my memory.
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Old 09-14-2020, 06:06 PM
 
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Perhaps not in our lifetimes you write ? In the fifties Detroit was the fastest growing city in the world. It was being built very,very quickly during America's post war boom. The city was in full bloom back then. Sure.
Now it is pretty rusty and decaying. The old Train Depot rehabilitation will really give the Downtown area a badly needed boost. It used to be the eyesore which stood in mute testimony to the inner city decay of the City. In the, "Words of the Free Press". Southwest Detroit isn't so bad(?) but one can get mugged down there after dark, as my friends did. Robbers took money and any gold they were carrying. Friends from work. The atmosphere is very polluted down there too.
There are a lot of abandoned store fronts on Woodward Ave.,downtown, just a little past the Central library.which speak very loudly of what once, was. Sure.
I do not like being accosted by panhandlers downtown either.

In the old glory days the movie theaters were kept open 24 hrs. a day to accommodate the 2nd and 3rd shift workers. Restaurants too. It was a very alive and happening place when the boom was on and the Rouge had up to 100,000 employed there alone. A number without G.M. and Chrysler. Let alone the other plants like Packard and American Motors. Around the clock, cars were made and the City hummed with activity.
I can just imagine what once was. It was unbelievable place where dreams could come true for many. The Rouge was the largest manufacturing facility on Earth. There was money to burn and Detroit was a sophisticated City. All new.
People from all over the earth immigrated to Detroit to work in the factories here. No more. There is a lot of inner city decay and the unemployment rate is very high. Before the pandemic it was at 24% now it is 48%. I have seen a lot of restaurants all over , closed and drugs being dealt in front of liquor stores. I had a friend who lived near the intersection of Grand River and Grand Blvd. and crime was very bad- and Troy would be the first to tell you. Troy was a good friend whom I used to give rides to and take grocery shopping but now has taken very seriously ill. His sister in law was the woman dealing drugs in front of the liquor store which Troy would would use only as a convenience store. I would wait in the car and watch the goings on. Troy is a good guy and the salt of the earth but he called his home- the Ghetto. Sister -in-law kept her money in her brassiere. One could see her swap little white packets for money in plain sight. Troy is very aware of his neighborhood and the activities in it. He is not naive, but street wise to the streets of Detroit.
Every single day there are always, street signs run over by drunks the night before.
Prostitution is practiced openly on Michigan Ave. All know this. There are drug addicts galore in there.
I have witnessed it. Yes, I drive all over the City and so, know it well.
You do not know of this or only do not acknowledge, any of this?
I have a friend who was a Detroit cop for years before his retirement, Gene is his name and well, he will not paint such a pretty picture as you do. Which stings he has been on, etc.
Shall I go on? If what you describe is all you've seen? You might want to get out a little more because there are many facets of Detroit which you are missing.
Have I been ever propositioned while working there? Sure.
We must include cities like River Rouge, Ecorse, Redford etc. because these little bergs make up Detroit and make the city what it is. Not just City limits make up Detroit. Any more than does only the immediate -polished up downtown area make up the City. Times are exceptionally bad right now too. The median household income is $31,000.00. Not good. The City itself filed bankruptcy a few years ago and is now projecting a three hundred million dollar deficit within three years... because of Covid.

Redford High has metal detectors positioned at the front doors to the school to keep weapons off campus.
Paradise it ain't. Desperation it is. Many,many times. The High School completion rate is 30%.

People visit , work, shop and play and visit there, you write. However you did not include- live there. Only visit? Detroit resembles East L.A. in that it is place where there is a lot of crime and poverty -for minorities. People resort to illegal activities because of limited economic opportunity in these places. Misery. These are places where hope is clung to and escape from a cycle of poverty is desired.
Nothing is ever described as being completely accurate so I will not resort to writing in absolutes. Some do not desire to live any where else but the D. Good for them. Detroit is not a completely bad place and
I am not maintaining this. However a description of the city would not be complete if this information above.
Mostly, all want to escape. I do not blame them.
Mexican Town is made up of immigrants and these folks are very happy for the opportunity to live and work here. Then again the poverty from which these Immigrants ran away was far,far worse. There are always new replacements too. For the ones who have escaped the cycle. All these ever wanted was an opportunity. Any opportunity. For themselves and their children. Industriousness is in their makeup.
Deep , to the marrow. Detroit can be in a quandary at any time but the citizens of Southwest Detroit will do alright. This above, is, what is. Not fantasy.
You might ask, Do I like it here? All, except the winters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post

the city as a whole, or at least the part of the city that attracts people to come work, shop, play or just visit has never been better than it is now in my lifetime or at least the lifetime of my memory.
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
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The train depot is not downtown. It is in Corktown. The train depot was never built out. Neither was the Stott Building (which is downtown and it is now apartments). A lot of formerly unfinished buildings are being finished and a lot of formerly finished and then run down and abandoned buildings are being refurbished and re-purposed.
Downtown and midtown are some of the most expensive places to live in Michigan - that is because the demand for housing there outstrips the supply.

Yes, you can get mugged anywhere. Parts of Southwest Detroit are still pretty bad. Del Rey is a wasteland but the new bridge will change that. Mexican Village has not gotten all that much better, but it has improved some. Some of the restaurants have gotten very popular. That little finger of Detroit that runs out into Melvindale seems to have gotten somewhat worse.

By the Central Library do you mean the main Library building in Mid-town? Mid-town is revitalized. There is a small stretch between mid-town and the stadium district (Formerly brush Park) where it is still somewhat decrepit. Stadium District, Fox Town (theater district), and then downtown on Woodward are pretty nice. There are some store fronts that are not occupied, but they have been re-rehabilitated and they are for rent. It is slowly filling in. Retain as an industry is dying, so there is not likely to be a lot of retail business coming in, but there are a few. The rest is taverns, restaurants, and entertainment (and some services). All cities will change as retail dies off. However Woodward has far more and nicer store front usage than it ever did since the late 1970s. Plus all the burned out buildings are gone.

Panhandlers are a PIA everywhere. for some reason they single me out in a crowd. They are annoying here, but far worse in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Manhattan. San Diego and Boston seem to have less of a problem. In Austin Texas they can get certified as actually being homeless and they have signs that give their certification number on the sign I guess there were a lot of less than needed people engaging in begging in Austin. In Denver along Colfax avenue it is difficult to tell who the panhandlers are and who are just hipsters. They kind of dress the same and they all smell like skunks. Right now, the panhandlers in Detroit are really aggressive because covid has emptied the streets so they have few people to beg from.

I think I was pretty clear that I was referring to the portions of Detroit that attract people to work, play, seek entertainment or visit. That is basically Downtown, The riverfront, Corktown, the Stadium District, the Theater District (Foxtown), Eastern Market, Mid-town, New Center, and to some extent Mexican Village. Some areas are still empty like Del rey or the neighborhood Marathon just bought and emptied. Residential areas are a different story. Some areas have remained nice like North Rosedale Park and to a lesser extent all of Rosedale Park, Indian village, Woodbridge, University, and a handful of others. Some neighborhoods have struggled to hang on but are still pretty neat (Boston Edison is one) Some areas declined greatly, but are now showing signs of a comeback and getting more and more popular (Old redford and some of the surrounding neighborhoods come to mind, there are other places I do not know the names of). Some areas are abandoned and just fields, while others are clearly in the process of being abandoned. Detroit is a huge city 135 square miles. I cannot claim to have seen all of it and I do not know anyone who has, but i am familiar with a lot of it, both through friends and family who live in the City, and through visiting different areas, often as part of Slow Roll, sometimes on my own, or with United way or other charity projects. Sometimes I just go explore and try to meet some of the people who live in a given area.

People live in these areas, but the main thing any major city does is attract people to eat shop work and play there. That is what makes it a city instead of a suburb. Yes tens of thousands of people have flocked to live in the newly renovated parts of the city. They are mostly in hiding now due to covid, but there are still enough people out and about to make it lively. Pre-covid, it was just short of crowded, which to me is perfect. I do not enjoy being jostled in a crowd or waiting in line for hours. I do like having a lot of people around to meet and to watch and to support hundreds of dining, drinking, shopping and entertainment options. Detroit had that just right balance. The local residents provide enough of a crowd to make it interesting enough for people to hang around after work and enjoy some jazz while sitting in the sand and drinking a nice scotch or local beer. Whether it will get that back post covid remains to be seen.

I do not know where you want to put Belle Isle in all of this but the change to Bell isle today compared to 5 or 10 or 20 years ago is remarkable.

Detroit was at its most beautiful in the 1930s an 1940s. It peaked in size in the 1950s and 1960s and has been in decline since. By the 1970s it was pretty awful and there wa little reason to come here except for sports or concerts (or for college in my case). The decline accelerated through the 1980s and 1990s with little spurts of rejuvenation here and there that did not work. In the 2010s, primarily through the efforts of Dan Gilbert and the Ilitch family, a real and lasting revitalization began. Hundreds of buildings have been Restored. tens of thousands of new residents have moved into these areas. Billions of dollars have been pumped into the City. Now the areas identified above are very nice. The city part of the city is just right sized. Busy and fun without being crowded. Over 400 businesses have opened downtown just since 2013. there is still room for more growth and revitalization. The City will not be the most beautiful city in the united states as it was called int he 1930s. But from the time period I identified (late 1970s to present) it has never bene better than it is now.

Certainly you will find policemen with all kinds of horror stories. Policemen see the worst side of our society and they get jaded. And, as I said, there are still parts of the City that have not revitalized and continue to decline, so there is a lot of crime in those areas (although considerably less than in past decades - at least for the City as a whole). You no longer see abandoned stolen/stripped cars and burnt out buildings all over the City like you did in the 1970s, 1980s etc.
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:41 PM
 
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Default Precisely,

Belle Isle, Corktown, Del Ray is all Detroit. Surely. This is an insignificant detail insofar as describing Detroit. Particluarly to outsiders, that is, people not from Detroit Metro.
Do not get me wrong- I like Detroit and its' history is amongst the most fascinating history in all the World. Ever. Fascinating stuff indeed. How can one ignore this? Speaking of historic... I just went by Henry Ford Mansion and it is once again open for tours after a two year shutdown for renovation. I always get an annual pass to The Ford, for myself and visitors.
Furthermore, it is where me and mine resided and made our living, at least my sons and I. So the fondness for Detroit and its' surrounding communities is real. I am not cynical but at least a realist. The truth is that the inner city is in disrepair and is a long way from what it was. There is a seedy underside to the city and I will not, for one, say there is not. Crime and decay thrive there. This is, what is.
As for Belle Isle? The State of Michigan took the Island over from the City for thirty years and yes, it is looking better. The State has done a lot of work in there as far as excavating and enlarging ponds, clearing brush and filling potholes and in some cases even doing an asphalt overlay of areas. It is one of our favorite places to go merely for its' beauty. When I first moved here I thought it one of the most beautiful places I ever visited and reminded me of the Straits of Mackinaw. When I first moved here I was spellbound at my first glimpse of the Straits. It is a spectacle.

Will Detroit ever make a comeback is the original question posed here. You say it already has? I have not
read your answer to this post. It surely right now, is not restored to what it was.
I have stated more than once what I considered an honest answer to this thread. Rather than portray the D as performing now, the way it once, did. The blight and number of abandoned cars is far improved
from what it once was,yes , this is for sure- but people still dump their refuse onto vacant lots. I have noticed. Garbage is everywhere, particularly around freeway ramps.
Whenever I drive around Detroit I try and make mental notes of all the places I drive through. It would take a miracle of technology to right the ship. The helm is too wobbly at this point in time. I too am well traveled and another truth is that there are places in Detroit, that are too grimy and too dirty and too old and for rehabilitation. There are just too many places which fit this description. The old Packard plants need demolition badly and this act alone would improve the skyline along I-94 downtown.
The panhandlers are just a nuisance, sure, I know. You write of Austin, a city that is beautiful if too hot for much of the year. Compare that inner city to Detroit's inner city. Austin is all new and shiny so surely it is going to look better, of course. Detroit downtown, looks elderly. Dated. Can it be fixed?
Will the D make a comeback? I would like to think so but it may take beyond both our lifetimes.
Time Magazine performed a survey of Detroit and the possibilities for the once Great City's renovation. After a six month survey Time's conclusion was that Detroit would be virtually all farmland in one hundred years. Mostly unpopulated. It was of course a fascinating virtual look into future. True ? Perhaps.
There was a program on the Discovery Channel concerning how the Earth reclaims land which was once claimed by humans and then abandoned. Nature has a way of overtaking what man has built and then left behind, it said. Within the program was video of Detroit's old Packard plant. How the roof at first began to leak and so how plants slowly took over its' interior. In the end even the trees growing atop the old plant were filmed explained how tree roots were splitting the floors, walls and even the roof.
If the city does not demolish the old plant, nature will. This is what is. I am sorry.
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:00 PM
 
1,996 posts, read 3,129,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Well done View Post
Belle Isle, Corktown, Del Ray is all Detroit. Surely. This is an insignificant detail insofar as describing Detroit. Particluarly to outsiders, that is, people not from Detroit Metro.
Do not get me wrong- I like Detroit and its' history is amongst the most fascinating history in all the World. Ever. Fascinating stuff indeed. How can one ignore this? Speaking of historic... I just went by Henry Ford Mansion and it is once again open for tours after a two year shutdown for renovation. I always get an annual pass to The Ford, for myself and visitors.
Furthermore, it is where me and mine resided and made our living, at least my sons and I. So the fondness for Detroit and its' surrounding communities is real. I am not cynical but at least a realist. The truth is that the inner city is in disrepair and is a long way from what it was. There is a seedy underside to the city and I will not, for one, say there is not. Crime and decay thrive there. This is, what is.
As for Belle Isle? The State of Michigan took the Island over from the City for thirty years and yes, it is looking better. The State has done a lot of work in there as far as excavating and enlarging ponds, clearing brush and filling potholes and in some cases even doing an asphalt overlay of areas. It is one of our favorite places to go merely for its' beauty. When I first moved here I thought it one of the most beautiful places I ever visited and reminded me of the Straits of Mackinaw. When I first moved here I was spellbound at my first glimpse of the Straits. It is a spectacle.

Will Detroit ever make a comeback is the original question posed here. You say it already has? I have not
read your answer to this post. It surely right now, is not restored to what it was.
I have stated more than once what I considered an honest answer to this thread. Rather than portray the D as performing now, the way it once, did. The blight and number of abandoned cars is far improved
from what it once was,yes , this is for sure- but people still dump their refuse onto vacant lots. I have noticed. Garbage is everywhere, particularly around freeway ramps.
Whenever I drive around Detroit I try and make mental notes of all the places I drive through. It would take a miracle of technology to right the ship. The helm is too wobbly at this point in time. I too am well traveled and another truth is that there are places in Detroit, that are too grimy and too dirty and too old and for rehabilitation. There are just too many places which fit this description. The old Packard plants need demolition badly and this act alone would improve the skyline along I-94 downtown.
The panhandlers are just a nuisance, sure, I know. You write of Austin, a city that is beautiful if too hot for much of the year. Compare that inner city to Detroit's inner city. Austin is all new and shiny so surely it is going to look better, of course. Detroit downtown, looks elderly. Dated. Can it be fixed?
Will the D make a comeback? I would like to think so but it may take beyond both our lifetimes.
Time Magazine performed a survey of Detroit and the possibilities for the once Great City's renovation. After a six month survey Time's conclusion was that Detroit would be virtually all farmland in one hundred years. Mostly unpopulated. It was of course a fascinating virtual look into future. True ? Perhaps.
There was a program on the Discovery Channel concerning how the Earth reclaims land which was once claimed by humans and then abandoned. Nature has a way of overtaking what man has built and then left behind, it said. Within the program was video of Detroit's old Packard plant. How the roof at first began to leak and so how plants slowly took over its' interior. In the end even the trees growing atop the old plant were filmed explained how tree roots were splitting the floors, walls and even the roof.
If the city does not demolish the old plant, nature will. This is what is. I am sorry.
You made 3 long, locquacious, rambling posts that can be summed up in this statement: No Detroit will not come back, it is too far gone. That is all you needed to say. All of the other fluff you went on and on and on about is the same re-hashing of the problems that have plaqued Detroit for decades. You provide nothing new, you just list the insurmountable ills of the city in your own, unique, long-winded way.
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Old 09-17-2020, 04:06 PM
 
216 posts, read 129,919 times
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Default Topic of this thread,

US Route 10. Do you have nothing to add to this thread? There is much ,much more which stands in the way of the recovery of the City than what I have written here.
I haven't even mentioned the corruption of City officials or anything at all, about the infrastructure. The infrastructure alone is a topic worth pages unto itself which I could expound upon, so you don't want to get me started on that topic. This infrastructure subject is a lot more complicated than what a few posts here might cover. Because much of the infrastructure is obscured. Underneath the City is an extremely complex web or system...I could go on and on. Some of the infrastructure which is in use every day here- is very dated and obsolete.

Nor do I believe the City is "Too far gone" as you write. However it very well might be. The costs of rehabilitating the city may not be worth it. Unless a National Emergency were to happen. It could happen, as I added from time to time ;because Detroit has the manufacturing knowledge and a very large manufacturing support structure. The country might have some use for this system sometime in the future. Who knows? I know this...
I have been "Repped" on each post in this thread. Anything else, just ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usroute10 View Post
You made 3 long, locquacious, rambling posts that can be summed up in this statement: No Detroit will not come back, it is too far gone. That is all you needed to say. All of the other fluff you went on and on and on about is the same re-hashing of the problems that have plaqued Detroit for decades. You provide nothing new, you just list the insurmountable ills of the city in your own, unique, long-winded way.
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