Living Around Detroit - So big...please help! (Warren, Sterling Heights: home, crime)

[cardwellave]

From: For Adults ONLY

"Before instituting a seven day a week curfew policy in June 2004, the management of Taubman-owned 1.5-million-square-foot Fairlane Town Center in Dearborn, Mich. used to get complaints from both tenants and customers about the noise and shoplifting its large teenage base caused. When congregating at the mall, the kids often curse and push each other, start fights over boyfriends and girlfriends and smoke in the entryways. “We had several thousand unsupervised young people who would spend every Friday and Saturday evening here-it was like having two high schools merging without adult supervision,” says Catherine O'Malley, Fairlane's general manager.

After the curfew went into effect, revenue losses from shoplifting went down 4 percent and sales at teen-oriented retail stores went up from 3 to 5 percent, O'Malley says. Putnam, who noticed a similar phenomenon at Eastfield, speculates that when teens come to the center with parents, they have access to more money and tend to spend more."

"Taubman's Fairlane Town Center falls in the second category — its policy goes into effect at 5 p.m. daily, but O'Malley says that was based more on community preference than the center's. “We asked for input from community leaders and they felt that it was better to encourage families to find opportunities to engage with their children.”

Managers are also sensitive in how they handle violators. At Fairlane, security officers are taught to treat the teens with respect and allow them to stay on the property until someone comes to pick them up (they are placed in a secure area and are monitored by both a live person and a camera). The same is true at North Hills and Desert Ridge Marketplace — “Our security team has gone through a lot of training to be able to handle these issues,” Bond says.

Not an 'official source' but..
From the Lincoln Park forum:
"Fairlane Town Center in Dearborn has raised the crime rate there [in Dearborn] for years. A car can be stolen or vandalized there every 15 minutes. There are organized shoplifting "Rings" that operate there on a regular basis.

For some reason the link won't post but there's a few stories about the murder that occured there a few years back, where Al Sharpton came and protested about it. It was on ClickOnDetroit.com

Some more stories:
Customer: Man Repeatedly Stabs Mall Employee - Detroit News Story - WDIV Detroit
Dearborn Responds To Teen's Cocaine Death - Detroit News Story - WDIV Detroit
Family Reports Teen Missing Since Thursday - Detroit News Story - WDIV Detroit

None of them mention "Gangs" per se, but it is pretty common knowledge that there is a lot lot lotttt of crime at Fairlane and to watch your back while you're there.

[Nearborn]

Uh huh. So where's the part about the gangs? Spanish Cobras? Latin Counts? Highwaymen? Hell's Angles? A large number of unruly teens is hardly a gang infestation.

The "car stolen or vandalized every 15 minutes" is pure bull$@%.

You posted a link to a stabbing story by a nutcase as evidence of Fairlane's crime problem, yet all the Detroit boosters around here can overlook 9, mostly innocent bystanders being shot in one incident in "safe" downtown Detroit? Let me put it in perspective: You're safer at Fairlane in Dearborn than you are in the New Center Area or Downtown Detroit, and those areas are touted as the safest in the city.

As far as Quantrell, what does that have to do with mall safety? He was holding some dope and swallowed it, resulting in his demise.

And what relevance does a 17 year old single mother from Highland Park have to mall safety? Just because that was the last place she was supposed to be, the implication is that she was kidnapped? BS. That's like saying Livonia is dangerous becuase D'wan Simms mother says he disappeared from Livonia mall. I don't know anyone who believes that. As far as "common knowledge", that's about the least accurate kind of knowledge there is.

None of them mention "Gangs" per se, but it is pretty common knowledge that there is a lot lot lotttt of crime at Fairlane and to watch your back while you're there.

A couple of posts ago, it was "common knowledge" that there was a gang problem at Fairlane. In fact, you said "noted". Like Detroit is "noted" for cars and Dearborn is "noted" for Henry Ford. You'd think that if a mall was "noted" for something you would have been able to come up with a few hundred stories about Fairlane and gangs. What's up with that? Could it be that Fairlane is NOT noted for gang activity?

The "murder" you're referring to was when some overwieght guy died after fighting with a store security guard over his kid's shoplifting incident. It was an all black cast but Sharpton and whatshisname the comedian came to town to rouse some rabble because they wanted to capitalize on Dearborn's racist reputation from 40 years ago ("It was racism at it's worst because the black security guard was brainwashed by "The Man" to hate black peopl". That's the gist of what he said). More BS, not indicative of a "crime problem" at Fairlane. It started as a minor shoplifting and wound up with the black security guard, who was also a Detroit fireman, being railroaded. Al and Jesse and the rest of those idiots were pissed off because the local judge dropped the case due to no probable cause for what they guy was charged with. A Detroit judge later ordered the Dearorn judge to bind the guy over for trial and I believe he was acquitted. There was no murder there. At most it was involuntary manslaughter, and as far as I'm concerned, not even that. Far from the kind of murders you see every now and then in "safe" downtown Detroit or the New Center Area.

Yeah, there's shoplifting, car theft and once in a great some violent crime like a strong arm robbery, but there's nowhere near as much crime there as there is in the "safest" commercial areas of Detroit.

[dfmovingsoon]

From usroute10:

Originally Posted by usroute10

If you are willing to give the city of Detroit a chance, please consider the older neighborhoods of Woodbridge and West Village.

Woodbridge is a 5 minute walk from Wayne State. It has SPECTACULAR architecture, and has a whole lot of foliage. More importantly, you would have fantastic neighbors

It is within the larger area of Detroit called "Midtown", which has a liberal, college town, artsy feel anchored by WSU and the College for Creative Studies. There are restaurants and cultural attractions within walking distance, plus other entertainment options within a very short drive in the nearby Downtown and New Center Areas.

The neighborhood of West Village is 4 miles to the east of downtown. It has some great architecture as well, and the people who live there care about their community. It is within walking distance to Gabriel Richard Park, which is a nice, renovated park on the Detroit Riverfront. Belle Isle, a 982-acre island park that is connected to the Detroit mainland by a bridge, is a 3-minute drive. Belle Isle, however, is not be to enjoyed on weekend evenings, as the crowd gets rowdy. Downtown, Midtown (WSU), and Eastern Market are 10-minute drives at the most.

Now what you'll have to deal with in Detroit is possibly high property taxes (but you'll be renting, and compared to Ann Arbor, they may be lower anyway), city services that are subpar (police, fire, etc), and a higher likelihood that you'll run into somebody shady. (you just have to be careful and lock your things up).

Here is a link to a condo for rent in Woodbridge. A little-pricey?
Discuss Detroit: Detroit condo for rent - Woodbridge/Wayne State

Also, if you want to live in either a low-rise or a high rise condo with an adjacent park and mini-shopping strip, please consider the neighborhood of Lafayette Park.
Lafayette Park, Detroit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regarding details on transportation in Detroit from TripAdvisor.com: "While it is possible to stay in downtown Detroit without a vehicle, it is not recommended if you want to tour the city and suburbs. The downtown area has shuttle bus services and also a People Mover rail service that services only the downtown area. For $.50 cents, you can ride the People Mover to most of downtown Detroit's highlights such as the casinos, the Renaissance/General Motors building, Greektown, Joe Louis and Cobo Arena, and the Riverfront. To ride the public bus in the city of Detroit (D.D.O.T.), the cost is $1.50. To ride the public bus that will take you outside the city limits (S.M.A.R.T.), the cost is $1.50. Bus services are designed to serve commuters and bus stops are not typically marked with route or schedule information. Therefore, a personal vehicle is highly recommended for visitors who intend to explore the city and region. Amtrak trains on the Wolverine line stop at the Detroit Station several times daily, linking Detroit with Michigan cities such as Pontiac, Birmingham, Royal Oak, Dearborn, Ann Arbor, and Kalamazoo, and also Chicago, Il."

[OhEdo]

Originally Posted by dfmovingsoon

From usroute10:


Regarding details on transportation in Detroit from TripAdvisor.com: "While it is possible to stay in downtown Detroit without a vehicle, it is not recommended if you want to tour the city and suburbs. The downtown area has shuttle bus services and also a People Mover rail service that services only the downtown area. For $.50 cents, you can ride the People Mover to most of downtown Detroit's highlights such as the casinos, the Renaissance/General Motors building, Greektown, Joe Louis and Cobo Arena, and the Riverfront. To ride the public bus in the city of Detroit (D.D.O.T.), the cost is $1.50. To ride the public bus that will take you outside the city limits (S.M.A.R.T.), the cost is $1.50. Bus services are designed to serve commuters and bus stops are not typically marked with route or schedule information. Therefore, a personal vehicle is highly recommended for visitors who intend to explore the city and region. Amtrak trains on the Wolverine line stop at the Detroit Station several times daily, linking Detroit with Michigan cities such as Pontiac, Birmingham, Royal Oak, Dearborn, Ann Arbor, and Kalamazoo, and also Chicago, Il."

That description sounds about right. One of the many changes the auto industry wrought upon Detroit was the elimination of streetcars, thus leaving no base for light rail development. The buses are usable if you don't have to transfer though. A simple one-bus trip up or down Woodward, Jefferson, or Mack, for example, is fairly quick and painless as the buses run frequently and around the clock. However, DDOT and SMART have strange agreements in place with regards to where they can and can't stop, but a basic rule of thumb is to take DDOT for stops within city limits and SMART otherwise. They both have pretty comprehensive schedules and such on their respective websites.
Unfortunately it is not possible to be close to both Wayne State and the big box stores but I personally prefer to eliminate the frustrating rush hour commute and replace it with occasional trips to the big stores and malls, thus my decision to live near work downtown. That's a decision you'll have to make for yourself. Otherwise usroute10's suggestions sound pretty good. Plus you'd be surprised at the amount of grocery shopping and such that can be accomplished within city limits at places like Eastern Market and the Honeybee supermarket in Mexico town, not to mention the new upscale Zaccaro's market near Mack and Woodward. And there actually are some clothing and other stores in the downtown - New Center corridor. No lie, I have a friend who lives downtown and does 100% of his shopping, with the possible exception of furniture and appliances, within a couple miles of home, so it can be done. The area midtown around Wayne State and intermingled with the campus is pretty attractive as well with a lot of new lofts and some of the best eating in town (IMO better than the upscale downtown restaurants). Might be a little short on the greenery for you though. Ferndale or Royal Oak may do as a compromise as well, sort of equidistant between midtown and the malls and such in the outer suburbs but a little closer to the latter. Both towns seem to fit your needs fairly well, and I must confess that my favorite metro Detroit supermarket, Holiday Market (as well as a Trader Joe's), is in Royal Oak.

[dfmovingsoon]

I would be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts about Birmingham, Berkley, and Plymouth since I am unfamiliar with these areas. Would they fit the criteria listed below at all? Thanks for your input.

Originally Posted by dfmovingsoon

Hello-
My husband and I may be moving to the Detroit area. He is seriously considering a job offer at Wayne State University as a professor. Can anyone offer suggestions with the following criteria? P.S. If we had our choice ,we would move to the Ann Arbor area, just to give you an idea of a town we love. However, the commute is too hefty to downtown Detroit.

- Quiet neighborhood with green, open areas (if that's possible). We are in our early-30s with a possibility of a baby soon. A rental 3-bedrm house or townhome ($1300 or less/mo) is something we would look into at first.
- Within a 30 minute commute to Wayne State.
- Seeking a friendly, open-minded community that welcomes the arts and liberal attitudes.
- Close to great restaurants (ethnic), shopping, the arts, and "things to do" (10-15 min drive or less), but would like to reside in quiet area.
- Need trees and greenery!
- Willing to pay more for the listed items above.

[cardwellave]

In my opinion, Birmingham tends to be much more upscale and stuffy. Lots of nice stores and things though. Plymouth, Northville, Berkley are nice, but they are a little small and a little limited as to what the offer, compared to the large area that Ann Arbor covers. Berkley is sort of limited to one street of a "central business district" while Ann Arbor has so much more. If you're looking for something that's as interesting and big and diverse as Ann Arbor....the only real option is...Ann Arbor. Royal Oak, Ferndale, Berkley, Plymouth, Northville, Birmingham...all nice, but more limited.

[windfarmer]

Originally Posted by cardwellave

The nearest Target would probably be in Dearborn (Ford Rd and Greenfield) or somewhere north of 8 Mile. The nearest malls would be Fairlane or Eastland...both of which are not real desirable and are noted for gang activity...particularly Fairlane.

Yeah Cardwellave.. I gotta second that comment. Fairlane has gotten MUCH WORSE in the last few years... Granted I moved here ten years ago (to michigan), but I never noticed how bad Fairlane was until now. I go there from time to time, but cringe when I walk inside. The patrons are almost all young inner city youth with pants hanging far below their waists. It isn't so much their hideous fashion that bothers me, it's their leers and thuggish demeanor that facilitates a very necessary boycott by those who wish to visit a shopping complex with their families – sans fear of being mrobbed [sic] by "hustlers and pimps." Massive groups of kids with no care in the world, except the gun in their waistband and their incessant desire to hold the world at bay with it; and I know this because a good friend of mine was a security guard at Fairlane for quite a few years. I've literally seen a guy get his cell phone yanked right out of his hand as he was talking on it, by a group of teenagers. Things got so bad at Fairlane a few years ago, that they had to enforce a rule that disallowed any minor to enter the premises without someone over the age of 21 or 25 I think it was. You will constantly see Dearborn Police being called to arrest someone for fighting, shoplifting or otherwise "gettin' crunked." It's a pretty crappy mall. Doesn't "look" bad interior-wise, but the clientele is what drives people like me to other malls like Somerset and Twelve Oaks. Now that it's summertime, I can't imagine what kind of trouble this out-of-school behavior will procure at the mall. Yeesh! Get me outta here.

[cardwellave]

I think it's kind of sad because they do have nice stores and it does look nice. However 99% of the time I go to Westland Mall which has less stores and doesn't look as nice (anymore...this is how it USED to look Malls of America - Vintage photos of lost Shopping Malls of the '50s, '60s & '70s).

[GinaJ]

I responded to the other thread but wanted to add a little. Now this is just my opinion and everyone is different. In my opinion Detroit is a no. I would not want to be walking around there and I don't think it is pleasant to the eye. Westland is a no too. Just the same type of feel I guess to me and run down. For myself I would rather commute a little extra and feel safe and have a pleasant living environment. I think Birmingham is cute and a lot of young people like RO. What about Troy which is a neighbor to Birmingham. I used to live near Northville in Novi and that is another option. I had to move though cause there are a lot of trains and it kept me up all night as I am a light sleeper. So if you are the same be careful of Northville and parts of Royal Oak.
Are you planning on staying at this place for awhile? I ask since you will have a child and school districts like Birmingham are very good. What about Farmington Hills or West Bloomfield?

[dfmovingsoon]

Thanks, GinaJ - your response, along with the posts from others, has helped me quite a bit in narrowing down some areas. Birmingham, Berkley, Troy, Clawson and possibly, the far-west side (Plymouth), may be desirable places for us . I think Royal Oak, with the popularity of its downtown and nightlife, may be a little too congested for us as a place to find a home. Can you estimate an honest "non Mapquest" commute time to Wayne State from Troy, Birmingham, Berley, Northville, and the other areas?

Its hard to say how long we might be in the area. My husband is considering a faculty position at Wayne State and if it's a good fit, he will want to stay and aim for tenure. If it is not a good fit, then we may be moving. Some people have mentioned to me that the Birmingham culture can be sort of "stuffy" or "snobby" at times. However, "snobbery" can be pretty relative. I wish I had something to compare it to. I am unfamiliar with the Detroit area and have only been to the Ann Arbor area a few times - an area that I really like. What is your opinion of the place in comparison to other areas? Thank you for your helpful input.