What can be done to improve Detroit? (St. Louis, Homer: housing, condos)

[jjbradleynyc]

My opinion is basically that Detroit has to shrink down (population) to a city that can stabilize--which is probably around 700,000 people. Once the people stop moving out in hoards (within 5 to 10 more years), the city can focus on razing groups of abandoned houses and change the zoning and create parks, recreational areas, and close down heavy taxing "extras" such as abandoned libraries, schools, and other city government property that has been abandoned. New uses could be community colleges, community centers, or privately owned galleries, companies, or storage facilities, etc.
The city is going to have to conduct some MAJOR rezoning and have all communities work together. It's gonna be super hard and a long road, but it's a start.

[Coldjensens]

To fix Detroit, you have to figure out what are its assets and detriments. You then have to promote the assets while reducing the detriments. I have seen almost equally bad cities recover. Why not Detroit? I think that the problem is leadership.

Detroit's assets are
Location. In the middle of the country with great access to shipping, rail, and trucking, plus a major airport is nearby.

Charm. Yes. Detroit still has some remaining historic charm. I was told that in the 1930s Detroit was considered the jewel of the U.S. Some of that charm is still here, a lot of it just does not have any windows anymore.

Accessibility. The freeway system here is really very good. Although things are slow now, a massive number of people could come to work and shop here from the suburbs, even from Canada.

Water. many high tech business need a lot of water. Many are located in places where water is a problem. Intel in New Mexico is a perfect example.

Suburbs. Detroit has a lot of very nice suburbs. If the City could attract businesses, the suburbs can provide nice quiet places to live.

Work force. Michigan has a large number of top notch colleges for the number of people here. The result is a large number of highly educated, well qualified residents. They do not live in the city now, but they could. Michigan workers are known for the "Midwestern work ethic". Although it is never valid to generalize, in my business, I have found that people from the mid-west tend to be more willing to work hard to get ahead. Too many young uns from the coasts seem to think that they are entitled to a specific income without really making an effort and to take time off for frivolous reasons. There are of course exceptions, but I think that it is generally accepted that you have a better chance of getting a hard worker if you hire mid-westerners. However since moving back here, I question that concept when it comes to union dominated trades.


Detriments:

Reputation. This is Detroit's biggest problem. Other Cities have fought the same thing and it takes decades to shake a bad reputation. Even when the problems are fixed the bad reputation prevails; and Detroit's problems are not fixed.

Leadership. There is no leadership in Detroit that I can see. A leader is a person willing to sacrifice their self interest for the good of the community. Local politicians seem interested only in their personal glory or economic well being. council meetings are a joke. There is no focus, and little cooperation. The government appears more interested in complaining and grandstanding than it is in actually doing any thing. The general perception is that the Detroit government is extremely corrupt (the government itself, not every individual in it). The government as an agency is certainly incompetent. Without strong leadership, Detroit will never recover.

People. Detroit is unbalanced. There are few members of the middle or upper income group living here. Few people with higher education seem to choose to stay here. There is very little racial, cultural, ethnic or any other mix. The vast majority of residents here are poor and black. No city can thrive with an overwhelming majority of one group of people. A healthy city needs a mix. Thriving Cities like New York, San Francisco, San Diego, etc, have a balance mix of races, clutures, income and education levels. It is difficult to attempt to attract other groups to a city because it is often viewed as racism. Why spend money to attract wealthy people here, when so many poor people are in need of services that the money could provide? The answer is simple, mix your economic backgrounds and you will be able to provide more services long term. This is a really touchy concern to address, but it is also completely necessary. Some efforts have been made to make Detroit palatable to other groups of persons, but it is slow going.

Neglect. Detroit is run down. The extent of decay and neglect is amazing. We have friends who visit who want to see the city just to gaze in astonishment at the decay. It is so extreme that Detroit could become a tourist destination. There is not easy way to correct this decay. Tear everything down and you loose all of your charm and appeal. The architecture here is phenomenal. New buildings just cannot match historic charm. However fixing it up will cost more than rebuilding. The solution is probably to correct other problems and make Detroit a desirable destination. Then restoration may become financially feasible.

Schools. With bad schools, people will not live here. If people will not live here, businesses will not want to come here. Huge steps forward are being made in this regard. Renaissance High has an excellent reputation. I have heard good things about the school of the arts as well. I am told that the Detroit elementary schools are fairly decent. I am also told that there is a huge problem with corruption and incompetence in the administration. It is at Jr. High and high school that things fall apart. Maybe charter schools are the answer. that certainly worked in other places.

Union mentality. We need to get away from the idea that we are entitled to breaks, regular time off, limited hours, time standing around doing nothing, or that only a special person can pick up a mop to clean up some spilled coke. We still need unions, but the unions need to get out of the 1960s mentality and move into this century. Unions think that business is evil for trying to maximize profits. If the City is to compete, the workers must make the businesses competitive. Businesses exist to make profits and will go where they can best achieve that goal.

some City's have reovered from terrible conditions. New York is a perfect example. Not everyone loves Times Square today, but it cannot reasonably be argued that its current condition is not an improvement over the 1980s. All of New York has improved. San Jose, and Santa Ana in California are good examples of cities that have made tremendous steps forward. I would have to look back at some research that I once did on this issue, but there are quite a few examples of Cities that made remarkable recoveries. The common element is some strong willed, charismatic leader or leaders with a vision get people to work together for a very long time toward a common goal. Improvements are incremental, but in a decade or two, the change is almost miraculous.

[OhEdo]

Originally Posted by permacultists

Detroit is what other cities are going to be like after the coming oil crash - economically depressed and decaying within, with the exception of local citizen activists struggling to bring in new sustainable businesses.
We don't want to fix detroit because we will have the last laugh when other cities are killing themselves off during the coming blackouts. Detroit has a low population density and lots of water and open spaces for growing urban gardens. Why should we "gentrify" so that rich people can come in and develop the city with unsustainable businesses that will crash in a few years anyway? To all those who hate detroit - please leave and good riddance to you. I see the big SUVs as endangered wooley mammoths charging down the road on their last desperate breath. Michigan will be vacated even more after the coming oil crash (the Big 3), and then everyone else will wish they lived here because we can survive the crash. I would hate to be in an arid climate running out of water and die from heat stroke when the blackouts come.
If you don't believe me, just read about Peak Oil. Not but 1% of americans have any clue about what is going to happen, but realize this; the government is building big civilian prisons in anticipation of the collapse - to house the rioters. Also, they are running simulations to see how suburbia can be retrofitted, or not, after the coming oil shocks and they are planning for what will be worse than the Great Depression. Public transportation will not help during a blackout. The only thing that matters is whether you have open land to grow food, or wild edibles to harvest. It is better to take a step off the curb than fall from the 20th floor of a penthouse suite. Thus, Detroit will have the last laugh.

I largely agree with this statement. The change may not be as dramatic or fast as permacultist says, but Detroit and the great lakes region in general has an abundance of three key resources that will quickly become highly desirable if global warming continues and people continue to mindlessly overburden desert environments that simply cannot sustain such levels of human activity. Those resources are fresh water, flat, arable land and a temperate climate.

Global warming (I won't start an argument about the causes, but the warming itself is real) shows no signs of slowing soon, meaning desertification and melting polar ice will also continue. As the problem becomes more severe, the aforementioned three resources will be at a premium, and many of the fair-weather sun worshipers in the southwest will come knocking on our door. Industrialization led to this region's rise a hundred years ago (and even that was due in part to the abundance of water sources and waterways), but food, water and a life-sustaining climate (the winters will presumably become warmer as well) will drive its rebirth in the years to come. Mark my words, the change may be gradual and it may not all take place in our lifetimes, but it will come.

[KevK]

Detroit is like New Orleans without the hurricane. It is beyond repair and any possible redemption as a city. It is like Atlantis- a lost civilization.

[KevK]

Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc

My opinion is basically that Detroit has to shrink down (population) to a city that can stabilize--which is probably around 700,000 people. Once the people stop moving out in hoards (within 5 to 10 more years), the city can focus on razing groups of abandoned houses and change the zoning and create parks, recreational areas, and close down heavy taxing "extras" such as abandoned libraries, schools, and other city government property that has been abandoned. New uses could be community colleges, community centers, or privately owned galleries, companies, or storage facilities, etc.
The city is going to have to conduct some MAJOR rezoning and have all communities work together. It's gonna be super hard and a long road, but it's a start.

Are there any libraries and public schools in Detroit that are NOT abandoned? The city used to have one decent school - Cass Tech- and I have heard even it is now in danger.

[Coldjensens]

Actually, Detroit has some of the top rated high schools in the state. Renaissance High is excellent. Cass Tech, Detroit school of the arts and the new language immersion school are all very good. There is one other that I cannot remember. The rest of the high schools are supposed to be very very bad. I am told that a lot of the elementary schools are pretty decent, but virtually all of the middles schools are terrible.

[KevK]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

Actually, Detroit has some of the top rated high schools in the state. Renaissance High is excellent. Cass Tech, Detroit school of the arts and the new language immersion school are all very good. There is one other that I cannot remember. The rest of the high schools are supposed to be very very bad. I am told that a lot of the elementary schools are pretty decent, but virtually all of the middles schools are terrible.

I bet the teachers there get combat pay and wear bullet vest!

[ambient]

Originally Posted by jjbradleynyc

My opinion is basically that Detroit has to shrink down (population) to a city that can stabilize--which is probably around 700,000 people. Once the people stop moving out in hoards (within 5 to 10 more years), the city can focus on razing groups of abandoned houses and change the zoning and create parks, recreational areas, and close down heavy taxing "extras" such as abandoned libraries, schools, and other city government property that has been abandoned. New uses could be community colleges, community centers, or privately owned galleries, companies, or storage facilities, etc.
The city is going to have to conduct some MAJOR rezoning and have all communities work together. It's gonna be super hard and a long road, but it's a start.

Bingo...

Looking back on a recent visit to Detroit, I think this is the most likely solution. The city has no choice but to continue to shrink to a sustainable size and, over time, to raze the largely abandoned wasteland that has accumulated.

I'm sorry to say it, but Detroit will never be what it once was. I think the decline is irreversible because I see the job situation as irreversible. Every great city with a sustained high quality of life derives it from its vibrant economy; simply put, you need to proportionally have enough of those upper/middle class jobs. The traditional well-paying manufacturing/industry jobs have dwindled and gone overseas, what's left of the US auto industry is very obviously an uncompetitive mess, and America's high-tech job providers have set up their hubs in other more favorable locations.

Folks, those jobs are never coming back. It's as simple as that.

[Michguy76]

I think Detroit is past the recovery point. I lived in Detroit for nine years and my wife lived there for twelve.....it has gotten worse and worse. Neighborhoods that were stable a few years ago are declining. I also own some rental properties in the city....which are vandalized the minute they are vacant. As a matter of fact, when we moved this past summer, we pulled out of the driveway at 10:00AM....by 11:15AM ALL the copper pipes were stolen.....took the police over an hour to get there to meet our realtor. These things are happening in both good and and bad sections of Detroit.

Taxes are also outrageous. You pay taxes based on purchase price....if you buy a house in 2007 that looks the same as your neighbor, who bought the house back in 1960, your taxes will be between $5,000 and $7,000 per year, while their taxes are well under $1,000. If there are abandoned houses on the block that have not have the water "officially" turned off, the bill for that house (or houses in many cases) is split up amongst the residents in the occupied houses.

Schools are also crazy.....I taught in four of them over the nine years I was there. Keeping the chaos at a low level is about all you can do in many cases. There are some exceptions...Cass Tech, Renaissance HS, Bates Academy, Marcus Garvey....and a few others are decent schools. But who wants a city with high taxes that seem to be mis-spent and schools many wouldn't send their dog to?

A mix of races and economic status is the only hope for Detroit. There is a huge Hispanic population on the SW side.....that side of the city is vibrant with business and the schools are improving. Perhaps more of this will happen.....if you look at history books, Detroit used to be a "world class city."

[Autumn11]

I am a former MI resident, living in SE Michigan for 9 years and SW Michigan for over 20 years...


Here is my Solution to improve Detroit:

1) Right-size the City of Detroit by realigning & reducing its borders for the remaining poplulation & community tax base to remain viable...

2) Then annex this acreage to neighboring communites to absorb public services & infrastructure maintenance with the assistance of State funding...

This will also reduce the "Detroit vs. MI (Lansing)" perception I used to hear about as Michigan will be working with the neighboring communites.

This annexation could also encourage Smarth Growth with mixed income housing, Corporate involvement & Builder development as land could now be reviatilzed without the stigma of "Whitey taking over Detroit".

Look people, let's be honest - Morale is low and the reality of the inevitable is being avoided... At the end of the day, there aren't enough people living in the City of Detroit to pay its bills - and those that are there are doing what they can with what they have, however their property values aren't high enough to maintain its abundant, aging infrastructure.... Right now, Detroit is paralized - fostering an environment for criminals, unethical opportunists, government corruption, and civic irresponsibility.

"Letting go" is often perceived as failure/quitting, however it is a guaranteed opportunity for a new beginning. Truth be told, Detroit was gone a long time ago, like a bad break-up we just hate finding out we've been holding on too long...it's time to move on, before another 250,000 people move out.