Why Not Move To Detroit? The Hype Isn't True. (Grand Rapids: mover, new home)

[SUBURBAN MAN]

Originally Posted by and the

Some people rationalize failure, others do something about it. After 30 years of affirmative action in Detroit, guaranteed home and business loans, guaranteed jobs, rehab, college tuition etc. I really don't think a black person has a leg to stand on when rationalizing their inability to succeed in today's Detroit, Wayne County or Michigan by blaming their failure on racism.

One can't blame racism for the inability to use birth control when one can't afford to have kids, or is unmarried.

One can't blame racism for the crack pipe or bottle in one's mouth .

One can't blame racism for the lack of a high school education.

One can't blame racism for the inability to discipline one's kids.


Just about all of the black people I know who DID hold off on having kids until they could afford them, and who DID stay away from drugs and alcohol, and who DID go to school instead of hanging out all day, and who DID make sure their kids did the same, were able to succeed in at least the same proportion as their white counterparts. The ones who followed this incredibly BASIC formula to success and still failed, did not fail in any greater numbers than white people.


There's a big difference between RACISM and LOSERISM.

As far as Detroit failing because it is unable to expand: Detroit expanded all the way to 8 mile and out to Telegraph. The point of expanding is to get more undeveloped land. NOT to swallow up the surrounding, already developed vibrant areas like a cancer because the core city is dying and crashing in upon itself. Detroit does not NEED more land. Detroit has an EXCESS of land, and EXCESS of housing stock and an EXCESS of industrial land. What they don't have an excess of is responsible leadership or an informed electorate. They proved that when they voted for their Hip-Hop mayor not once, but TWICE!! As far as leadership, the majority of Detroiters get what the majority of Detroiters want and deserve.

What kind of idiot would give the Detroit electorate any more say in how the suburbs are run than they already have? I didn't work my a$$ off to be able move OUT of Detroit and to raise my family in a Canton, or a Livonia or a Farmington Hills only to have the City of Detroit "expand" out to meet me and have the morons in the City of Detroit who elected Kwami Kilpatrick suddenly have any influence over the selection of my local leadership, bond issues, school issues, tax issues, zoning issues, etc. You can call that a racist position if you want, but a whole lot of black suburbanites feel the same way, and if you've ever seen a Detroit City Council meeting, a Detroit School Board Meeting, a Detroit Board of Police Commissioners meeting or a Kwami Kilpatrick fundraiser, and compared what is "normal" in Detroit to what is "normal" in the suburbs, you'd call it a common-freaking-sense position!!



Back in the days of Black Bottom and housing covenants, blacks working for Henry Ford and the "Five Dollar Day" would often express their wealth with expensive cars and clothing because they were restricted in where they could live due to racially based housing covenants.

That was a good excuse for not building equity then. How do you explain seeing a $50,000.00 car in the driveway of a $30,000.00 house now? The white loan officer will finance a car but not a house? White car salesman forces the black guy to live in a $30,000.00 house so he can afford the lease on the Benz? What?

I didn't inherit any money from my parents and I was out off the house long before they paid off the 30-year mortgage. My Black counterparts can't attain the same level of success as me after 30 years of affirmative action because their parents or grandparents were held back by racism?

Some day Detroiters will stop running out of excuses for the aspects of Detroit's failure that are directly attributable to decisions made by Detroiters over the last 30 or even 20 years. I don't think that day will come in my lifetime though. It's a lot easier to point the blame at the suburbs.

I totally agree... ok i live in canton and i'm asian but don't you dare call me rascist because i have white, chinese, vietnamese, indian and hispanic friends. But i have no black friends because the blacks in canton are either lazy and don't want to assimalate or are rascist against us who were here before and so they form their own all black circles. I believe that statistics don't lie... why is places like canton and troy that are more white and asian more wealthier, smarter, and safer, then all black places like detroit which is a mess. the blacks already took over southfield and now theres more and more moving to canton. fellow suburbanites, I'm afraid that we've lost westland to detroit's people.

[Tinnie]

What horrible depictions of Detroiters. More Whites use drugs than African-Americans. There are more whites than African-Americans remember. Meth and crack are popular in the burbs. I know this because I am a Social Worker who has worked in Detroit and the Suburbs. Mayor Kilpatrick has a "Law Degree". His wife also has a "Law Degree". You call him a Hip Hop Major but he is an educated African-American. Why are you using so many "Sterotypes". Your words express hate.
The truth of the matter is this: There is no city where Whites can run from any Minority now. That includes Asians, East Indians, Arabs, and Latinos. The Economic and Employment venues have changed drastically because of our Global Economy and International Trade. The "Living Wage" has been restructured and the middle-class both White and Miniority have been disenfranchised!! Westland and Canton are now becoming the middle class Hubs. Southfield is now become more Middle Eastern. The Black Doctors, lawyers, Nurses, Teachers, Accountants, and other elite Black professions have left that area. Many people black white, and hispanic who have had a lost of Income due to Corporate downsizing, outsoucing, and income restructuring HAD to move. Many people lost the Income which qualified them for Mortgages to live in the Southfield area. Note, that the GNP has decreased in this country. Ford, Chrysler, General Motors, Delphi, American Axle, and other manufacturing companies have eliminated over 300,000 jobs in the last 5 years!! Believe me some of the employees working for the above companies had Bachelor and Masters degrees. They were not all High School grads. I know, I was employed by General Motors as a salaried employee for over 28 years. I am a victim of the elimination of American Workers who had Incomes that qualified them to live in middle-class neighborhoods. This was to bring our wage scale in line with foreign sweat shops and foreign carpetbaggers. What say you now!!

[kobraf150]

Originally Posted by Brother WilliamX

Blue Grass, I can understand why you been perplexed, but the truth of the matter is its not a against you personally, and this racist crap is given from both Blacks and Whites. Not ALL Whites are bad, and neither is ALL Blacks.
Hate is hate no matter how you look at it, but remember American history when it mentioned hanging,burning, and firebombing Churches in the South.

Thereforth its natural for Blacks to resent or hate after what happened. There is many Blacks in the South who is affaid of Jim Crow or should I be more blunt? Whereas here in the North its a whole new game. We have learned how to express our anger or resentment. Regardless to if its being hostle or having pure hate, if it don't apply then let it fly.

Let me translate what I just stated...in other words if you did nothing wrong then why worrie about how another person acts. I don't believe that the hostle vibes was directed at you, but you are part of a group that started this racist and discriminating movement, and maybe you are just feeling guilty because of what you are seeing. In closing No its not because you are from the South.

See, when I lived in Detroit from 83-93, I got more crap from the few whites who were in my hood than I ever got when I moved to Plymouth w/ my family, or Garden City where I live now. I was afraid specifically of old white men with beards because of one who lived 4 doors down who was loud and mean. Also, to tell you the truth, if I were white I kinda would've been racist too probably living in the messy area I was from (Southfield and Joy).

[Nearborn]

I was afraid specifically of old white men with beards because of one who lived 4 doors down who was loud and mean.

That was Santa Claus. He doesn't really jolly-up until just before Thanksgiving.

What horrible depictions of Detroiters. More Whites use drugs than African-Americans.

Unfortunately, the problem is, blacks are more likely to use drugs than whites. It's that whole "per capita" thing. Same goes for committing felonies, out-of-wedlock birth, joblessness, reliance on welfare.....You can't solve the problem until you admit the extent of the problem....

[Existtoexit]

What about new york city it is made up of 5 counties

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

I don't know all the ins-and-outs of city government, but I think a strong county system (e.g Cook County - Chicago) or metropolitan government (e.g. London) is better in many ways than a city annexing the area in its county (e.g. Philadelphia County).

Philadelphia annexed the land in its county assuming that they would eventually reach 5 million people. It's hard to say whether it's "saved" the city, but many people just ended up moving farther away to Chester, Montgomery, and Delaware counties and southern NJ. It also resulted in the city having much more area than it could maintain with services, especially as people and their tax base fled further away. To compensate, they installed a crippling 5% wage tax for those living and/or working in the city. The Northeast has been trying to get un-annexed for years now.

On the flipside, Cook county taxes from all the suburbs have largely gone into the city. I think this is a fair system where suburbs help maintain the city that makes their existence possible without crippling its citizens to the point that they move further away.

[Existtoexit]

I totally have too agree! Asians Are always wealthy in every country! Soo are jews! They are both minorities too! Well the fact is that asians and jews have the highest iqs . The class system of the world is a class system based on iq not race . It just happens too be some races such as the black have a much larger amount of people with very low iqs . In many african countries iq's are in the 65 area . Border line retarded . Yet third world asian countries like china still have higher iqs than america . How can china have a higher iq than the usa? With out genetics being the reason for the higher iqs .

It happens too be the traits for high intelligence , High focus High ambition and Low impulsitivity are related . It is based on the dopamine system . Low dopamine causes Low intelligence - Low focus - Low ambition and High impulsivity . With high drug use , It is not a coincidence that people with low dopamine crave drugs like amphetamines and cocaine . It is not surprizing that is why we use ampthetamines such as ritalin too treat a.d.d by stimulating the dopamine system .
Low dopamine is what causes the symptoms of a.d.d

The truth is that scientists have found that blacks have much lower dopamine than other races!

Males have lower dopamine than females! This is why males have higher impulsivity and lower focus vs many females .


Soo if low dopamine is what causes the problems! We need too find ways too balance these problems out . And find new learning styles that suit people with these traits .

Ignoring problems that occur in different people is neglect! If you pretend every person can learn the same way or handle everything the same . That is a form of neglect because you are neglecting the problems . Face up too the problems than you can solve them . Ignoring known problems because it is un moral is false . The only way too solve the issue of people that can not fit into our society is finding ways too incorporate them better into our society.

If some one is down syndrome and you pretend they are a genius . That is neglect because you are neglecting the problem on hand , And pretending too see the out come you want instead of facing up too the facts that need too be adressed .

Originally Posted by SUBURBAN MAN

I totally agree... ok i live in canton and i'm asian but don't you dare call me rascist because i have white, chinese, vietnamese, indian and hispanic friends. But i have no black friends because the blacks in canton are either lazy and don't want to assimalate or are rascist against us who were here before and so they form their own all black circles. I believe that statistics don't lie... why is places like canton and troy that are more white and asian more wealthier, smarter, and safer, then all black places like detroit which is a mess. the blacks already took over southfield and now theres more and more moving to canton. fellow suburbanites, I'm afraid that we've lost westland to detroit's people.

[Nearborn]

Maybe it's because they don't assimilate as easily into our culture of video games, People Magazine, Oprah and Jerry Springer.

I'm no expert, but it seems like the Asian and Jewish cultures stress education and hard work at a level that many of us would find inconvenient. I think that rationalizing their success (and others' failure) by linking it to some physical cause lets one group off the hook and is a discredit to the other.

I attended Interlochen a long time ago and the first chair players in the orchestra were very often Asian. The student who started off with a violin at 3 years old AND the attentive parent who sacrificed (mostly TIME) for their kids were also often Asian. And the student who grew up with incredible discipline and dedication was also often Asian. And the student who was in the practice rooms at Interlochen all day long? Yep, often Asian.

Black and white students who were exposed to and stuck with this same regimen often had similar success! Imagine that! There were some standouts who had a natural gift, like perfect pitch, who didn't have to work as hard as the rest of us, but for the most part, the Asians stood out because they worked their asses off!

I suppose there were a lot of Jews that succeeded through hard work too, judging by the number or Yarmulkas I saw.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by Existtoexit

I totally have too agree! Asians Are always wealthy in every country! Soo are jews! They are both minorities too! Well the fact is that asians and jews have the highest iqs . The class system of the world is a class system based on iq not race . It just happens too be some races such as the black have a much larger amount of people with very low iqs . In many african countries iq's are in the 65 area . Border line retarded . Yet third world asian countries like china still have higher iqs than america . How can china have a higher iq than the usa? With out genetics being the reason for the higher iqs .

It happens too be the traits for high intelligence , High focus High ambition and Low impulsitivity are related . It is based on the dopamine system . Low dopamine causes Low intelligence - Low focus - Low ambition and High impulsivity . With high drug use , It is not a coincidence that people with low dopamine crave drugs like amphetamines and cocaine . It is not surprizing that is why we use ampthetamines such as ritalin too treat a.d.d by stimulating the dopamine system .
Low dopamine is what causes the symptoms of a.d.d

The truth is that scientists have found that blacks have much lower dopamine than other races!

Males have lower dopamine than females! This is why males have higher impulsivity and lower focus vs many females .


Soo if low dopamine is what causes the problems! We need too find ways too balance these problems out . And find new learning styles that suit people with these traits .

Ignoring problems that occur in different people is neglect! If you pretend every person can learn the same way or handle everything the same . That is a form of neglect because you are neglecting the problems . Face up too the problems than you can solve them . Ignoring known problems because it is un moral is false . The only way too solve the issue of people that can not fit into our society is finding ways too incorporate them better into our society.

If some one is down syndrome and you pretend they are a genius . That is neglect because you are neglecting the problem on hand , And pretending too see the out come you want instead of facing up too the facts that need too be adressed .

WOW! I thought that these attitudes died out in the 1890s. I have a Century Book of facts from 1900 that has an article asserting that Black persons brains are more similar in weight to a monkey's brain than to a white mans brain. You would like that book. There are also some books from a well known fellow by the name of Adolph Hitler that you would probably enjoy.

You need to find some newer books and get caught up with the rest of civilization. No race has higher I.Q.s than others, however cultural differences can change the emphasis that is placed on education.

[Existtoexit]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

WOW! I thought that these attitudes died out in the 1890s. I have a Century Book of facts from 1900 that has an article asserting that Black persons brains are more similar in weight to a monkey's brain than to a white mans brain. You would like that book. There are also some books from a well known fellow by the name of Adolph Hitler that you would probably enjoy.

You need to find some newer books and get caught up with the rest of civilization. No race has higher I.Q.s than others, however cultural differences can change the emphasis that is placed on education.

Those statistics on iq are right off of wikipedia! Does wikipedia have some conspiracy theory too falsely show blacks as dumb?? I highly doubt that! The Dopamine factor was a scientific study that talked about how blacks have a much slower heart beat because of the much lower Dopamine . Which is important for doctors too know ..
It did not talk about differences in impulse control .

But the fact is low dopamine is what causes a.d.d . Impulse control problems as Well as low ambition .

Is the culture not set by the people living in it? IF you have a town of lumber jacks you will have a lumber jack culture . If you have people who love dancing you will have a culture that loves dancing! If you have a bunch of genius in as certain area , Than you will have a intelligent culture who will see education as a priority , Smarter people them selves will push education heavily! If you have a bunch of criminals who like too live in certain areas! Than you will have a criminal culture! The personalties of the majority of the people in the group defined set the culture . Than most of the rest get sucked into that culture .

IT is not a coincidence that both austrialia and the early southern united states americans , Both areas had mostly british citizens moving into these areas . Why has austrialia and the southern united states always have been seen to have a very rough culture . Where the english were always seen too have a gentler , more proper culture . IT is no coincidence that the roughest people in britian are the ones that moved too austrialia! There for giving australia a rougher culture! Based on the majority!


I find it funny how when one of the smartest and most respected scientists in the world . Talked about how blacks have lower iqs . Than the media sees him as a quack . Well i think One of the smartest scientists in the world has a better idea on the iq of the world . Than some prissy dumb news anchor would .

The funny part is that they dismissed the idea of differences in iq right away . They did not want too let them study the iq's like the scientists wanted to . Well if you do not want scientists too study the differences of race and iq in higher depth ? Does that mean you are in denial . That you deep down inside know or believe that the iqs of different races really will show that whites and asians are superior?
If everyone is soo sure that blacks have the same iqs as whites! Shouldn't they be saying sure study it ! The study will prove you wrong , Because iqs are all the same in all races! Because if you are soo sure about the iqs of all races being equal .
Than why would you be soo scared and dismiss a study that could prove that all iqs are different!
It is obvious everyone knows the iqs of different races are different! But everyone surpresses it and pretends that everyone is the exact same in this world! It makes people feel more secure . Soo why not security over truth is always better right? lol

It really is rediculous how scientists constantly have too battle a society who would rather see a false reality in the way they would like too see it . Rather than the way reality actually is .


The real racist go against jewish and asians too . Well i think jews and asians are superior too whites? Soo what does that make me A person who hates anyone who is different out of ignorance? Of course not! . I have seen what i have seen in our society , All i know is that this includes detriot , chicago and new york is . That these places have no connection with the south or slavery . Most of these cities had immigrants moving into the cities from Ireland , Germany , Poland and Italy .

Why would in the north the same class structure , as the south ? As far as im concerned when the wave of immigrants were taking over the cities at the same time the blacks moved into northern cities . The blacks should have been able too become middle class . These were people coming too america with fresh ideas and fresh minds . The ideas of racism and class structure of black people .

Why in new york a place that has almost no people with any roots too the original americans or southerners . Almost everyone in new york is jewish, irish or italian .
All these groups are middle class now . But the class system of blacks is still the same in new york . The ideas of a major percentage of whites being racist still exists in new york whites who are almost all immigrants . Soo why do these ideas exist? Obviously the northern whites are not taught these ideas! Since they had nothing to do with slavery!
It is obvious that the northern whites who are racist are observing some thing that has made many of them racist .

In asia i heard a discussion of black people who went to asia and in asia they had the same The fact is that the smart and ambitious jew , and asian sterotype is in every part of america and even the world . Where as the dumb and lazy black sterotype is all over the world even in asia they talk about it , In asia they had a huge discussion on how asians in asia were seeing blacks as dumb lazy and criminals , But how can this be? Obviously people all over the world are observing a reason why they see asians one way and blacks the other ?

Soo if blacks moved into the northern cities at the same time immigrants from europe were coming . Where did the racism in the north start from? Blacks had a fresh start! Why didn't blacks become totally middle class in the north like the irish or italians did who arrived in the northern cities at the same time?
People are obviously seeing something going on . Becase in every spot in this country people will tell you asians are smarter and blacks commit more crimes .


Like i said before the statistics and truth are right out there .
If you want too denie the truth , and pretend every single person on this planet is the same . Than that is even stupider .

[jr0890]

Didn't someone get shot at the Detroit fireworks a few years ago?
Never heard of that at the Livonia Spree...