Why Not Move To Detroit? The Hype Isn't True. (Warren: theater, universities)
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What part of my post do you disagree with Maxine3? Or, do you just generally think that the Detroit suburbs will continue to be A.O.K. without a major city defining the region and holding it all together. I hate to break it to you, but there is NOT ONE metropolitan area in the world that is successful without a flagship city. Nobody, and I mean nobody, comes to visit suburbia for the sake suburbia. The suburbs are bedroom communities, where people live, raise families, retire, etc. But the central city is what attracts businesses, people, resources, and money to an area. Without Detroit, the suburubs are just dozens of small floating communities with not much in them other than planned subivisions and shopping malls. Many of us may not like Detroit, but there is really no hope for this region unless Detroit comes back.
Almost every one of my friends from college moved away a few years ago to Chicago or the east coast. Believe me, my friends, who were born Metro Detroiters, didn't pack up and head to Chicago for its suburbs. They were attracted by professional jobs in the city, what the city could offer them, and an apartment with a nice view of the skyline. It's people like them that Detroit needs to keep. Yes, one day they might move to the suburbs to have a family or to retire, but you can bet it won't be Detroit's suburbs. They've already begun planting new roots somewhere else. If this trend isn't halted, Detroit's nice suburbs will eventually die off as the older generations living there begin to die off because there will no new generation to replace them. As Detroiters/Metro Detroiters, we all have to work together to rebuild a prominent central city, or at least a successful core, to stop the bleeding before there's nothing here left to save.
To sum it up, Metro Detroit's suburbs cannot compete for talent and jobs with the cities of Chicago, New York, Philidelphia, Phoenix, Seattle, and Los Angeles, only DETROIT can. Detroit is wounded, on its knees, barely holding back the demise of SE Michigan, and it needs the help of the people who live here. If Detroit falls, we all fall.
Detroit is dead. The 'burbs are thriving without it. It will never "come back" until the voters want it to come back. Kwame would get elected, as mayor, in a minute. Until that kind of stuff is stopped, might as well just bury it.
The total corruption in that city is unbelievable.
Detroit is dead. The 'burbs are thriving without it. It will never "come back" until the voters want it to come back. Kwame would get elected, as mayor, in a minute. Until that kind of stuff is stopped, might as well just bury it.
The total corruption in that city is unbelievable.
Maxine3, the 'burbs are not thriving. The suburbs are losing population almost as fast as the City of Detroit. The people leaving are the young/middle-aged, educated, future stars who were the cream-of-our-crop. They are leaving in droves for greener pastures. This is so prevalent, the term "brain drain" was coined to describe it. When I graduated college and went to professional school, the number one thing people asked me was where I was going to move, implying that now that I was educated, I could finally get out of the dying Metro Detroit region. I chose not to leave because I am stubborn and want to help Detroit/Metro Detroit succeed, but very few are dedicated to that cause.
Secondly, Kwame is no longer in office. A judge in Detroit Recorder's Court sent him to prison, and he's facing down a long list of federal indictments, as well as all of his cronies. Detroiters did however elect a new mayor, Dave Bing, who is committed to turning around the way Detroit city government does business. The corruption in Detroit is being quashed everyday as new charges are handed down. Right now, good people can either step up and get involved, or they can let Bing drown in a sea of no support. If that happens, yes, crooks will move in to fill the power vaccuum. The political tide has momentarily shifted in Detroit, and good leaders have taken the hill, but if decent people don't move in to support it, then once again we will have left it to fail. Honestly, I believe Detroit is out of chances to push back. This is it. If we can hold the fort for at least 10 years, momentum will build, progress will happen, and things will improve. On the other hand, if apathy takes hold, we may never see this region prosperous again.
"This is it. If we can hold the fort for at least 10 years, momentum will build, progress will happen, and things will improve. On the other hand, if apathy takes hold, we may never see this region prosperous again."
Detroit doesn't have 10 minutes much less 10 years.
Please don't preach to me. I was born in Detroit (73 years ago) and raised there. I do have a clue what goes on there.
I know Kwame is no longer in office, and Bing may be, sort of, honest but he is no leader.
Keep believing in your fantasy about Detroit, but it was lost years ago.
Keep believing in your fantasy about Detroit, but it was lost years ago.
Maxine3, I'm not trying to preach to you, just trying to convince people that my hometown is worth saving. If you are 73 years young, then you've seen the city's best days and its worst. I've made a conscious decision to stay here and not follow the crowd out of town. But, I have a lot to lose if this area does not rebound. It is my belief that the suburbs need a prosperous anchor city to be successful over the long-term. My historical perspective is certainly nowhere near as a comprehensive as a person of your life experience. That said, any turnaround that happens will likely be the product of the efforts of the next generation. Metro Detroiters need to foster new ways of thinking about solutions to age-old problems. Is it a fantasy that Detroit can come back? We may have to agree to disagree. I don't believe it will be easy, but bigger obstacles have been overcome. Things do change, times change, perspectives change, and hopefully things will change for the better if we can at least agree that doing nothing is no solution.
Last edited by ForStarters; 07-19-2010 at 05:25 PM..
ForStarters, your optimism is encouraging. Unfortunately you're never going to convince someone who's 73 years old and witnessed all the changes the city has been through.
All of our focus and all of our hopes should be on the young people. We need to attract them back and get them to stay in SE Michigan and metro Detroit.
What baffles me about people's perception of Detroit and its worthiness of being saved is that so many people can't see all of the great things that Detroit has going for it, things that can't be bought or brought in, things that are unique and amazingly worth building a great city around.
-A beautiful riverfront. Ever been to a city with no water access, save a tiny river running through it? BO-ring!
-The busiest border crossing between the U.S. and Canada in either country
-Easy access to the fresh water abundance of the Great Lakes
-Abundant natural resources within the same state, and great tourism opportunities fairly close by
-Many great colleges and universities in very close proximity, resulting in a well-educated population/workforce
-An amazingly rich history and some of the most incredible architecture in the country, representing so many periods: Victorian, Arts and Crafts, Art Deco, Mid-Century Modern, etc., etc.
-A gorgeous state of the art airport that does circles around the airports in almost every large U.S. city
-A varied climate. I know that a lot of people leave Michigan because of our four season climate, but really...especially after these last couple of weeks of Florida-like weather, would you want it to be like this for more than a couple of weeks out of the year? Would you honestly want a hot, sunny Christmas? Some who have never left will say yes, but speaking as someone who has lived temporarily in a climate with no distinct seasons, save hotter than hell and not so hot, give me a snow shovel a couple of days out of the year and I will gladly use it. When I am outside pulling weeds and there is a heat index of 105 degrees, I realize that winter may be God's way of giving us a rest from those kinds of duties, plus, we get rid of the bugs for at least 4-5 months out of the year, which is also nice.
As I mentioned, we relocated to Phoenix for a fairly short time last year due to my husband's job. For the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would build a city in the middle of a flat, scorching desert hundreds of miles inland from any sizeable body of water. Sure, they don't get snow. But other than that, seriously, Detroit has a million and one great assets that Pheonix would covet and can't buy, including all of those that I listed above. And yet, Phoenix is growing (and yes, the job market there is beyond awful too, so it's not for jobs that people are moving there) and Detroit is slowly dying. I don't get why others can't see the potential and the great assets that this region enjoys that other regions could only dream about. And yet, Detroit continues to be the butt of jokes from all over the country instead of being a desirable destination!
Like ForStarters, I can't give up on this region. It is home and it always will be, come what may. I get impatient with the leadership for not being able to convey to others outside of our region what a great place it is to live and how worth saving it really is, but I know that they are trying and are being held back by a long history of corruption and lack of funds. Still, I am optomistic about the future of Detroit. Eventually, I think that people will take a second look and realize that there is much here that is desirable and worth fixing. I just hope it happens in my lifetime.
Location: 30% Brighton--60% Grand Rapids 10% on the road
6,183 posts, read 6,259,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxine3
"This is it. If we can hold the fort for at least 10 years, momentum will build, progress will happen, and things will improve. On the other hand, if apathy takes hold, we may never see this region prosperous again."
Detroit doesn't have 10 minutes much less 10 years.
Please don't preach to me. I was born in Detroit (73 years ago) and raised there. I do have a clue what goes on there.
I know Kwame is no longer in office, and Bing may be, sort of, honest but he is no leader.
Keep believing in your fantasy about Detroit, but it was lost years ago.
I sincerely believe that IF the suburbs are to survive, Detroit has to be reinvented...
BUT since the likelihood of that happening is somewhat less that armageddon starting tomorrow, the burbs will start developing an image that is free of the Detroit stigma and continue to reinvent themselves.
The notion that suburbs NEED a large urban hub to survive is archaic and no longer required in the 21st century.
There are many small towns / cities that do just fine without a hub city to leach off the smaller communities.
What baffles me about people's perception of Detroit and its worthiness of being saved is that so many people can't see all of the great things that Detroit has going for it, things that can't be bought or brought in, things that are unique and amazingly worth building a great city around.
-A beautiful riverfront. Ever been to a city with no water access, save a tiny river running through it? BO-ring!
-The busiest border crossing between the U.S. and Canada in either country
-Easy access to the fresh water abundance of the Great Lakes
-Abundant natural resources within the same state, and great tourism opportunities fairly close by
-Many great colleges and universities in very close proximity, resulting in a well-educated population/workforce
-An amazingly rich history and some of the most incredible architecture in the country, representing so many periods: Victorian, Arts and Crafts, Art Deco, Mid-Century Modern, etc., etc.
-A gorgeous state of the art airport that does circles around the airports in almost every large U.S. city
-A varied climate. I know that a lot of people leave Michigan because of our four season climate, but really...especially after these last couple of weeks of Florida-like weather, would you want it to be like this for more than a couple of weeks out of the year? Would you honestly want a hot, sunny Christmas? Some who have never left will say yes, but speaking as someone who has lived temporarily in a climate with no distinct seasons, save hotter than hell and not so hot, give me a snow shovel a couple of days out of the year and I will gladly use it. When I am outside pulling weeds and there is a heat index of 105 degrees, I realize that winter may be God's way of giving us a rest from those kinds of duties, plus, we get rid of the bugs for at least 4-5 months out of the year, which is also nice.
As I mentioned, we relocated to Phoenix for a fairly short time last year due to my husband's job. For the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would build a city in the middle of a flat, scorching desert hundreds of miles inland from any sizeable body of water. Sure, they don't get snow. But other than that, seriously, Detroit has a million and one great assets that Pheonix would covet and can't buy, including all of those that I listed above. And yet, Phoenix is growing (and yes, the job market there is beyond awful too, so it's not for jobs that people are moving there) and Detroit is slowly dying. I don't get why others can't see the potential and the great assets that this region enjoys that other regions could only dream about. And yet, Detroit continues to be the butt of jokes from all over the country instead of being a desirable destination!
Like ForStarters, I can't give up on this region. It is home and it always will be, come what may. I get impatient with the leadership for not being able to convey to others outside of our region what a great place it is to live and how worth saving it really is, but I know that they are trying and are being held back by a long history of corruption and lack of funds. Still, I am optomistic about the future of Detroit. Eventually, I think that people will take a second look and realize that there is much here that is desirable and worth fixing. I just hope it happens in my lifetime.
Many of these attributes are subjective. My opinion is that Detroit's riverfront got the short end of the stick...Windsor's has better views. Natural resources aren't bad compared to a lot of places, but one man's beautiful forest blocks another man's view. I could be (and am) a contrarian on all these issues but I'll spare everyone. I have lived in the metro all my life but don't consider myself a Detroiter. The place never got into my blood. Lots of people hate the weather, myself included. I can't stand ice. Can't walk on it, can't drive on it. I have some guarded optimism (but not much) for the suburbs; they've done pretty well for themselves without a meaningful flagship city. Business doesn't need a figurehead city in a region for business to thrive. There's no need to set up shop in Detroit anymore...why bother when someplace like Plymouth Township is closer to the airport, closer to McMansions in which the CEO would want to live, employee parking is not an issue, and nobody has to pay Detroit City Income Tax. This is why I'm not optimistic on Detroit. This is why, a few years ago, I did not purchase a house in the city, although I was looking into it (a lot more than the average suburbanite).
The notion that suburbs NEED a large urban hub to survive is archaic and no longer required in the 21st century.
If you think about it, this is exactly what we've had for the last 45 years and it isn't working. For the last 45 years, the suburbs have tried to be an independent entity by cutting all ties to their anchor city, Detroit. The truth is, Detroit was successful, as successful as Chicago until Detroit's suburbanization became the only priority for this region. While Chicago continued to build infrastructrure, we built outward further than the eye could see. Highways lined with strip malls and low density housing sprang up everywhere, leaving a retail shop and another home abandoned in the city, resulting in blight, lower property values, and higher city taxes. If you've ever flown into Detroit Metro Airport at night from the west, you can see how much greater Detroit's sprawl is than Chicago's. It's unblelievable.
In our region, suburbanization attempted to debase all central city functions, including businesses, sports and entertainment venues, and high density housing. I have tried to imagine what this would look like if that trend continued. GM could have been relocated to Warren, the financial district could have been spread out to various locations across the suburbs, the auto show could be in Novi, the Red Wings in Canton, the Tigers could be located downriver, the Lions could move back to Pontiac, the opera house, orchestra hall, Fox theater and dozens of other theaters could have been uprooted and transplanted in pepper-like fashion to various communities 30 miles apart, the art museum could be put in Northville, and Hart Plaza could have been recreated in Belleville somewhere.
As one can see, that model wouldn't work, and doesn't work. There has to be centralization. One could argue that all of those core functions could be centralized in a new suburban location, say Southfield for example, but what do you think will happen? Southfield will become Detroit-like as people race to distance themselves from it, leaving nothing but destruction behind. And now, not one, but two cities will be blighted and have nightmareish problems. This is because the suburbs are fractured communities, the only thing they have in common is that they are smaller, "not Detroits." Plymouth has no more loyalty to Southfield than Plymouth has to Detroit.
Our region must begin the arduous job of putting the toothpaste back in the tube. It has already started with the Lions moving back to the city and some of the efforts to relocate city functions have been averted, such as the auto show leaving and GM relocating to Warren. Hopefully, the Pistons will also be back downtown soon so that people from the western suburbs can actually attend the games without a 1 hour drive. Since the beginning of time, cities have been the most efficient construct for human existence. This is true in the 21st century as well, and will likely be for the next several centuries. I am curious if someday this same debate won't take place on the surface of Mars ("martian sprawl" because nobody wants to live in the central pod district). The trend toward further suburbanization is unsustainable, and alas it is finally shifting back.
You also mentioned the city "leaching" off suburbs. This is not about leaching; one is not a parasite and the other a host. City and suburbs are one in the same. They are the same creature- their history, their identity, and their prosperity are interlocked.
Location: 30% Brighton--60% Grand Rapids 10% on the road
6,183 posts, read 6,259,355 times
Reputation: 3946
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForStarters
You also mentioned the city "leaching" off suburbs. This is not about leaching; one is not a parasite and the other a host. City and suburbs are one in the same. They are the same creature- their history, their identity, and their prosperity are interlocked.
There are quite a few "luxury" type taxes specifically designed to improve Detroit's finances.
Who paid for the people mover? NOT only Detroit tax payers.
Who paid for Illich's kingdom? NOT just Detroit tax payers.
Detroit has had numerous dispensations that rely on "contributions" from its neighbors. But when L. Brooks Paterson had the courage to say enough was enough, he was labled racist and an isolationist. (and I don't particularly like L. Brooks)
Yet when Kawamee cries he will not let the Detroit Zoo go the way of the DIA (meaning suburbanites supporting it?) he was called an advocate for the city and the "folks" that live there? That was until he tried to sell Rackham Golf Course out from under the good folks of the city.
My intertwine-ness left the city in the early 1960s when my grandparents were "pushed" out by urban blight and thus ended 2 generations of being a Detroiter (since the 1830s).
Ich bin ein Detroiter, if nothing else in my broken heart.
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