Which Detroit suburbs are in the BEST shape? (Sterling Heights, Ann Arbor: transplants, for sale)

[ckhthankgod]

What about a suburb like Berkley? It is a diverse school district due to getting kids from the northern part of Oak Park.

How is Royal Oak in terms of neighborhoods and schools? Are either one of these areas affordable?

What about the Rochester Hills area too? How are the Avondale and Rochester Community School Districts?

[ckhthankgod]

Also, I noticed that some of the West Bloomfield area is in the Walled Lake school district. Isn't that a highly ranked school district?

[lovemygirls0_2]

Sterling Heights is the best of all worlds. Taxes are low, schools are great and a low crime rate.

[Wendy from GP]

Hemmie,

You say you like the city, you like diversity, etc, but you are not choosing GP. This is incongruous. GP is wonderfully rich culturally, and right next to the city. We are downtown all the time enjoying everything it has to offer. If you move to GP, your children will grow up to appreciate this diversity and sophistication that is lacking in the northern suburbs. We moved here from SF, via London, NY, and Chicago. We greatly appreciate city living, which is why we chose GP.

As for the home prices, please look at what is selling, not the list price. B'ham has a large number of foreclosures and much greater inventory than GP. It has not yet adjusted to the fall in prices the same way as GP has, but they are selling far fewer homes. Not to mention, the median home price is almost identical. It's just that GP has more amazing mansions that no one can afford in this environment, so they are greatly reduced in price. But we just sold our house for $160/sfoot in the Farms. I think that's about the going rate in B'ham. Ask other Wayne Profs who live in GP what they think. Plenty of them do. See www.grossepointenews.com. It's a shame you are not visiting in the summer. That's when GP is at its best, and there is no comparison.

As for auto related jobs, it seems odd to me that you think there is a higher concentration in GP than in the Northern Suburbs. Why is that? Actually, GP has a higher concentration of academics and health care and legal professionals than other affluent suburbs. For the past decade or two, auto-related jobs have moved north. If you don't believe me, just drive I-75 North and see for yourself. In fact, most GM execs traditionally lived in the B'ham/Bloomfiled area. Ford execs traditionally lived in GP.

Also, did you notice GP South is ranked at the top of the Newsweek rankings? This year Newsweek changed the manner in which it ranks, but in the past South was always head and shoulders above the others (except the Oakland County magnet school.) I'm surprised about GP voting down the IB program, but they offer every class you can imagine. And do the other non-magnet schools in Oakland County offer IB? If they do, GP won't be far behind. They are very competitive that way.

Please don't write off GP just yet. Look at the Farms, City, and Park, particularly near the water, village, or Hill. It's wonderful.

[Wendy from GP]

Actually, Hemmie, one more point. Where are you finding the home prices? One complaint that I made with the GP Board of Realtors is that the information in Zwillow and Trulia for GP is wildly incorrect. Zwillow is useless for GP, and Trulia often lists homes in Detroit as GP homes because they share the same zip code. You may be looking at faulty data, which might explain some of the insanely low prices you are seeing.

Thanks.

[hemmie]

Hi Wendy,
Thanks - I appreciate your response. I'm not writing off GP. I'll visit it in March when I come out on my scouting trip, and I value input such as yours. I LOVE the houses I'm seeing in the listings, and I do love the idea of being so close to the city for many reasons (commute time for my husband, close enough to take advantage of Detroit offerings, diversity, etc.

My thought about the auto-related jobs is based on the differential in the real estate listings - I have been poring over listings in both markets (B'ham and GP) for about six weeks now on a daily basis. I don't understand WHY the listing prices in B'ham are still so high, and the explanations some have given to me are that GP is not as insulated from the auto industry troubles. I still think it's strange that housing prices are still so high in B'ham - some of these houses approach California levels (did these people not get the memo?!?).

Believe me, there is A LOT that is appealing about Grosse Pointe. And I really will give it a fair shake... I will try to meet some people when I'm there to see if they're "my kind" of people. But some of the things I've heard have freaked me out a bit - conservative, traditional, hostile to outsiders, old money, only caring who your grandparents were and if they lived in GP, uncurious, voting down the IB, calling the parents' club at the high school the "mothers' club" ("oh but fathers are welcome!" - what is that?!?). I know these are stereotypes, so I will keep an open mind, but we happen to meet several people in a row here in LA who reacted with "you do NOT want to live in Grosse Pointe!" because of these reasons.

Since I will be a stay-at-home mom for the first time (which I'm having adjustment jitters about), I want to live in a place that I'll be as likely as possible that I'll meet potential friends and be comfortable with my neighbors. I obviously don't know yet where that place is - all I can go on is what I read here and other information I gather from people I meet here.

I'm sorry if what I say is offensive to you and others that live or have lived in GP. But it's the people & the community that it comes down to for me... just like a boyfriend, a town can look great "on paper" but still not be the right fit.

[hemmie]

Wendy, I'm mostly using Realtor.com and I am being sent listings from a realtor in B'ham. I have a lot of saved listings on Realtor.com that I have then cross-checked on Google maps to double check the location and listing price. I have become VERY familiar with the locations as to where they lie in relation to school districts, which I have mapped out on my own, personalized Google map (of course, cross-checked with GreatSchools.net), though I fully realize there is no comparison to seeing things in person. I'm doing the best I can from afar though!

I am ALSO checking Trulia and Zillow though. I should tell you that my financial advisor (whose advising us not to buy right now) said there are over 4100 foreclosures in 48236 alone. Yes, I know that includes Harper Woods, but still. Wowza.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by hemmie

Hi Wendy,
Thanks - I appreciate your response. I'm not writing off GP. I'll visit it in March when I come out on my scouting trip, and I value input such as yours. I LOVE the houses I'm seeing in the listings, and I do love the idea of being so close to the city for many reasons (commute time for my husband, close enough to take advantage of Detroit offerings, diversity, etc.

My thought about the auto-related jobs is based on the differential in the real estate listings - I have been poring over listings in both markets (B'ham and GP) for about six weeks now on a daily basis. I don't understand WHY the listing prices in B'ham are still so high, and the explanations some have given to me are that GP is not as insulated from the auto industry troubles. I still think it's strange that housing prices are still so high in B'ham - some of these houses approach California levels (did these people not get the memo?!?).

Believe me, there is A LOT that is appealing about Grosse Pointe. And I really will give it a fair shake... I will try to meet some people when I'm there to see if they're "my kind" of people. But some of the things I've heard have freaked me out a bit - conservative, traditional, hostile to outsiders, old money, only caring who your grandparents were and if they lived in GP, uncurious, voting down the IB, calling the parents' club at the high school the "mothers' club" ("oh but fathers are welcome!" - what is that?!?). I know these are stereotypes, so I will keep an open mind, but we happen to meet several people in a row here in LA who reacted with "you do NOT want to live in Grosse Pointe!" because of these reasons.

Since I will be a stay-at-home mom for the first time (which I'm having adjustment jitters about), I want to live in a place that I'll be as likely as possible that I'll meet potential friends and be comfortable with my neighbors. I obviously don't know yet where that place is - all I can go on is what I read here and other information I gather from people I meet here.

I'm sorry if what I say is offensive to you and others that live or have lived in GP. But it's the people & the community that it comes down to for me... just like a boyfriend, a town can look great "on paper" but still not be the right fit.

IN Grosse Pointe you will find what you are expecting to find. There are wonderful down to earth people there, there are snobs. The same is true for Birmingham.

Grosse Pointe has a reputation for old money, blueblood residents. I am not sure that was ever true, but if it was, it was some time ago. I can certainly tell you that it is not a valid generalization now. I know about 30 people who live there. All but one are very nice family types. The kind of people that you would want for neighbors. All say that they love it there. Most of them are upper middle class (several lawyers, a professor, a pharmacy owner, and an engineer), but not wealthy. Some, I do not know their financial situation.

Brimingham is known as a new money snobby place filled with trophy wives and decorator dogs. This is also not true. Although you will certainly find some of that there (especially downtown), there are a lot of genuine good people there. I know fewer people who live in Birmingahm, but still about a dozen. roughly half of them love it and half dislike it (they say it is snobby). However it may be that the reputation causes people to find snobbery where it really is not all that prevelant. A couple of the people from Birmingham that I know are snobs, but the rest are nice people. Almost everyone that I know from brimingham is very wealthy.

You cannot base your decsion on a couple of people that I happen to know, but you can realize that both places have all types of people. Even if there is an air of snobbery amongst some residents, you can avoid it by avoiding those people and places. Both are very pleasant communities with really good schools and lots of neat events.


The proximity to Detroit makes Grosse Pointe convenient. Be aware that traffic gets pretty heavy in and near Birmingham. Birmingham definitely has a lot more to offer as far as shopping and dining (unless you include Detroit in with Grosse Pointe.). Grosse Pointe has the water. For me that would decide the issue all by itself.

The people that you net, have they had any experience with Grosse Poitne recently? I think that it has changed a lot in hte last 20 years. So has Birmingham.

Whichever city you decide to like the best will be great for you. you cna find wonderful people and live a great life in either place. If you go into either city looking for ugliness, you will find that too.

Good luck. You have an easy task. You cannot go wrong in this choice.

[hemmie]

Thanks, Coldj - you've been very kind and helpful in these forums. Having grown up in a place that has a reputation similar to that of GP, I may be overly aversive to it. So I do plan to go there, sit in a coffee shop, hang out, soak it in, maybe meet some moms. The resistence to change is odd to me as exhibited by the "mothers' club" at the high school and the voting down of the IB. Those will be things I'll ask about, though I don't want to go in overly combative...

Wendy, point taken. I'll look at prices of home sales as opposed to listing prices, and I won't write GP off.

[Dexterguy]

Originally Posted by Wendy from GP

As for auto related jobs, it seems odd to me that you think there is a higher concentration in GP than in the Northern Suburbs. Why is that? Actually, GP has a higher concentration of academics and health care and legal professionals than other affluent suburbs. For the past decade or two, auto-related jobs have moved north. If you don't believe me, just drive I-75 North and see for yourself. In fact, most GM execs traditionally lived in the B'ham/Bloomfiled area. Ford execs traditionally lived in GP.

Just curious, how do you know this? Do you know everyone in the Pointes and Birmingham?

I have never heard of many Ford execs living in the Pointes. Many of them live in Dearborn (in the nicer neighborhoods), and the ones who don't (like my cousin) mostly live spread out throughout the outer suburbs like Waterford, Commerce, and South Lyon, yes I know people who commute to the Glasshouse everyday from these cities.

Grosse Pointe at least use to have a large population of GM execs that commuted to the RenCen and back. But many of the ones that I knew I have not been in contact with for some time. (I guess you can drive around Grosse Pointe and see what kind of cars are in there driveway and garage).