The Real Problem With Detroit

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

Waltlantz, the first thing to make note of is that in nothing that I have written have I asked FOR ANYTHING from society or white America. I NEVER asked for an apology nor do I feel an apology that has to be asked for would be sincere in the first place. When America comes to that point on its own….without prodding, pressure or threats….then I would accept it as sincere. Otherwise, the nation can keep it. On that note, America sees a slippery slope and hence sees any apology as opening up the door for material or monetary compensation of some sort, as well as, an admission of responsibility. Thus, America is far, far from an apology and I am not stupid enough to ask or expect one. It’s a total waste of time.

You are correct in that young white kids are less tuned to race than the older generations. That is a double edge sword, however. It’s good from the point of view that they are not actively trying to keep black people down, but it’s bad from the perspective that they cannot understand why older blacks are making the arguments that they are making and hence see the black people making the arguments as the problem. The legacy effect of past racism is current socioeconomic racial inequality. Whether or not whites of today are racist or not is not germane to the consequence of the actions of past whites. Just because a company is under new management does not mean that the people hurt by the practices of past management all of a sudden are miraculously healed or made solvent. Moreover, if they had their way, new management and ownership would rather not inherit the liabilities created by past management and owners. That way they can maximize profit. Yet, at the same time, they want to inherit the assets, goodwill and customer base created by the past owners. Hence, this is why the law is such that when you inherit an estate or take over a business, you inherit the assets and liabilities of the entity. In regards to America, Americans want the assets from the past…..but not the liabilities. They have no trouble enjoying the fruits created by others in the past, that they in no way help create, yet, they want to deny any and all liabilities born in the past based upon the rationalization that they had no part in creating the problem.

I look at this situation scientifically and not emotionally. I am not concerned about could have, would have, should have etc. I am simply concerned with the science of cause and effect, actions and reactions and facts. Most of you are on an emotional plane. I agree that there are a lot of things that I wish black people would do or would not do. However, I fundamentally understand that the reason they do or do not do something is born from their humanity. If I start with the assumption that regardless of race, our humanity is the same, then the only thing that separates our outcomes is environment and experience (past and present). If I believe that there are substantive differences between the humanity of the races, in that some are inferior and some superior in their capacities as humans, then, and only then, can I be open to dismissing environment and experience (past and present).

I believe that had whites had the experience of blacks and blacks the experience of whites, blacks would be hoping and arguing that whites would “get over it” while whites would be using their past treatment to explain their socioeconomic disenfranchisement relative to blacks. Many whites cannot even entertain this hypothetical as they cannot even entertain the thought of blacks ever being able to create the type of society and living standards as white, let alone be able to ever oppress whites due to their subconscious or conscious belief in white genetic superiority…..in intellect, if nothing else.

Too true...I will say that you and waltlantz both make very good points. That's why I think you need a little bit of both standing up for yourself, with some forward thinking and innovation, which is something Black people do not lack.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by waltlantz

I'll give you that part, cause it has solvency. I accept and am aware of that. Still I believe that the Cobo deal still laid bare a severe lack of professionalism all else neutral. Being concerned for city labor contracts is one thing, but the OVERREACTING is a huge detriment to the image of the council and the citizens who appointed them. The immediate jumping the gun to quickly say "RACISM" in that case, I still find totally unjustified. I really hate to seem like I am hating on the people of the city, but knee jerk reactions like that only drive the situation downward.

I will say as a person that has been to Detroit and has family in the area, I think that the leadership needs to step out and trust people willing to invest in the city more. Like I've said again though, there seems like there has not been any type of closure in regards to some issues that go back well over a century in that area. I could see it when I went to MSU and the potential is great for the city due to it's location, size, resources(human and otherwise) and the ability to grow.

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by waltlantz

I'll give you that part, cause it has solvency. I accept and am aware of that. Still I believe that the Cobo deal still laid bare a severe lack of professionalism all else neutral. Being concerned for city labor contracts is one thing, but the OVERREACTING is a huge detriment to the image of the council and the citizens who appointed them. The immediate jumping the gun to quickly say "RACISM" in that case, I still find totally unjustified. I really hate to seem like I am hating on the people of the city, but knee jerk reactions like that only drive the situation downward.

I respect the city council. There are no “hidden” agendas or undercurrents. If race is an issue or fear in the black community…..blacks will say it in no uncertain terms. You know exactly where they stand. I have witnessed endless charades by politicians beating around the bush trying to be politically correct and saying all the “proper” things. Not the Detroit city council. Everything is on the table. Everyone knows how everyone feels. It might not be pretty……BUT IT IS REAL!!! Besides, I think that it is too early to pass judgment. If the City council ends up getting a better deal for the City than the previous deal…then all the critics will look like fools. I like REAL politicans....not these plastic bozos. The city council represents the PEOPLE....they are a cross section of Detroit. They are not a group of "elites" totally out of touch with the people pretending to know what the people want. Remember...this is a representitive republic where politicians are elected to represent the beliefs of the people.

[uggabugga]

Originally Posted by Twehttam

Cockrel vetoes City Council's Cobo vote | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

right on

Cockrel also reacted to assertions that Detroit City Council President Monica Conyers injected race into the matter.

“Small-minded, divisive politics, you know the us vs. them mentality, the city vs. suburbs mentality, the black vs. white mentality has held us back as a city and, frankly, held the region back for years,” he said. “It’s time for us to move beyond that. The only color that really matters here, is not black or white, it’s green.”

[Kibby]

Originally Posted by Indentured Servant

I respect the city council. There are no “hidden” agendas or undercurrents. If race is an issue or fear in the black community…..blacks will say it in no uncertain terms. You know exactly where they stand. I have witnessed endless charades by politicians beating around the bush trying to be politically correct and saying all the “proper” things. Not the Detroit city council. Everything is on the table. Everyone knows how everyone feels. It might not be pretty……BUT IT IS REAL!!! Besides, I think that it is too early to pass judgment. If the City council ends up getting a better deal for the City than the previous deal…then all the critics will look like fools. I like REAL politicans....not these plastic bozos. The city council represents the PEOPLE....they are a cross section of Detroit. They are not a group of "elites" totally out of touch with the people pretending to know what the people want. Remember...this is a representitive republic where politicians are elected to represent the beliefs of the people.

I absolutely believe you - I even agree with you. What was expressed in that council meeting is the "real" deal. It's what they really think and believe.

Speakers advocating for the deal were taunted by the crowd and cut short by Council President Monica Conyers, who presided over the hearing like an angry bulldog; whites were advised by the citizens to, "Go home."

When he dared suggest that an improved Cobo Center would create more good-paying jobs for union workers, Conyers reminded him, "Those workers look like you; they don't look like me."

From the Chicago Tribune

The median price of a home sold in Detroit in December was $7,500, according to Realcomp, a listing service.

Not $75,000. Remove a zero—it's seven thousand five hundred dollars, substantially less than the lowest-price car on the new-car market.

Do you know why people are selling up for as little as $7500? It's escape money. They are leaving Detroit at the rate of 1000 a month - I bet that's increased.

"We need somebody to come in and care for the city more than they care for themselves."

That's clearly not going to happen - One of America's most beautiful and historic cities would rather fight each other and point fingers than pull together. The results of that are inevitable. What a pity.

Jim Crow happened all over the USA, white flight happened in every Metropolitan area in the USA, riots happened in many major cities. Most of the country has been able to recover from these atrocities, move forward with the times. Not forget but remember what was and what can be IF we all work for a better future. One city in America is going under because they are still living in the past and fighting past wars. I don't just mean "problems" - I mean bankruptcy.

"Detroit will never be the great industrial center again," said Kevin Boyle, a Detroit native and author of "Arc of Justice: A Saga of Race, Civil Rights and Murder in the Jazz Age."

"What will it look like?" Boyle said. "I don't know."

Ask your city council - I sure they will give you a "real" answer. Ask those politicians that you have been electing for decades - they must have the "real" answer. In the meantime, there is a steady stream of cars with Michigan in their rear view mirror.