Detroit News- Who's leaving and what does that portend? (Lansing: foreclosures, renters)

[Cliffie]

Originally Posted by ocean2026

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...staggers+state

Its pretty sad -the young and educated families leave - the poor and old stay. The future can't be bright.

If the young and educated families leave, that gives the poor a shot at some of their jobs. It may make the future brighter for them, and about time too if you ask me.

i don't understand why people like to comment on my first post, yet completely ignore my second. so i'll ask again. if detroit is in such a mess as to never be repaired, how come plces that were WORSE than detroit all of a sudden start improving? what makes detroit any different from all the other places that were either just as bad or worse? what makes detroit irreparable, yet cities like nyc, philly, newark, oakland, chicago, baltimore, DC, camden, and many more can recover?

There is no difference, except the lousy, lousy, lousy attitude even Detroit's leaders have about the city. Everyone is sitting on their thumbs waiting for someone else to drop out of the sky and fix everything. Detroiters themselves could definitely use some help, but the surrounding areas that have EVERYTHING to gain by helping, don't. I'm especially thrown when people on this forum say things like "you can't do anything about the corrupt government there" and blah blah blah. They got rid of Kwame, didn't they? Now throw the rest of the bums out. Try to remember, people, we live in a DEMOCRACY. You are all in charge. So get in the voting booths, write your elected officials, storm the city-county building, but for Scrod sakes, quit yer whining and DO something.

[enigmaingr]

Originally Posted by Cliffie

If the young and educated families leave, that gives the poor a shot at some of their jobs. It may make the future brighter for them, and about time too if you ask me.


There is no difference, except the lousy, lousy, lousy attitude even Detroit's leaders have about the city. Everyone is sitting on their thumbs waiting for someone else to drop out of the sky and fix everything. Detroiters themselves could definitely use some help, but the surrounding areas that have EVERYTHING to gain by helping, don't.

The first part is not true. If an employer's needs are not met by the local workforce, in terms of quality and quantity, they will move their operation elsewhere...overseas if necessary. If this were not true, companies would always choose to expand where unemployment is highest (i.e. greater supply of workers). We would have companies sabotaging each other right now to be the first into Detroit (and Michigan for that matter).

It is a responsibility of local government and the citizens to create an environment, through taxes and services, where the employer wants to operate in and their workforce wants to live in. No one benefits from a brain drain; The "poor" will have even less job prospects because supporting industries (restaurants, hotels, grocery stores) go where the people with money go. Detroit, where only 25% graduate from its public school system and only 10% of the population has a college degree, knows this fact all too well.

I agree about the leadership though. The only thing Detroit's leadership seems capable of doing is hooking up family members and perpetuating the victim mentality among the citizens. The suburban leadership is not without fault. They remain blissfully ignorant that their well being depends on a vibrant Detroit. It's akin to standing on one end of a ship while the other end sinks thinking "I'm glad it's them and not me".

[MonkeyButler7000]

Originally Posted by enigmaingr

Detroit will become a more viable place to live as will Michigan. A couple of things must happen first:

1) The city government must change. The current government resembles the cast from a bad reality TV show. Every person current holding office within the city must go. Their grip over the police department must also be checked in the process.

2) Once we find a competent police chief, they need to get tough on crime. Though putting away small-time criminals is a start, the police need to go after the big boys. This may require Federal help and a few RICO investigations.

3) Detroit and its suburbs have to end their detente. The suburban governments must come together to aid Detroit in all ways possible. Suburbs must realize that they are in the same boat as Detroit; a better Detroit means better suburbs.

4) The area needs a better transportation system. This can only happen once #3 occurs. The area can no longer afford to have symbolic boundaries based on race.

5) Controlled gentrification must occur. As much as I hate to see an area lose its culture, we need to create areas where people with money want to live. The choices are to lose a few neighborhoods to gentrification or an entire city to poverty.

Many cities that faced similar problems as Detroit realized these changes. NYC made a turnaround only when the government made some initially unpopular decisions for the good of the whole city. They actively rid the subways of homeless people, allowing more people to feel comfortable using public transportation. In turn, people began circulating within the city and into areas made increasingly safe by an aggressive police presence. This was not popular by many people who wanted the results without the changes.

If and when Detroit gets on this path, I'm sure there will be a cohort of people who will scream and holler. Ironically, many of these people will be the same folks who are now screaming about people abandoning Detroit out of self-interest.

Good post. I do have a few things that I woul like to add:

#3 will not happen until #1 happens. People in the suburbs with the cash and the brain-power to reinvigorate the city will not waste their time or money with the current city leadership still in place because they are afraid of having their investments go to buying somebody's wife a new Navigator instead of building the city.

#5 I don't think that this would be too much of a problem. With the exception of a few places such as Greektown or Mexicantown, the city is pretty much a blank slate. If anything, I would think that gentrification would start downtown along the river and tie into Indian Village.

#4 Talking mass transit is getting way ahead of ourselves for a couple reasons. First of all, although it is a popular idea in cities across the country, so far there has been little evidence of any value-added by building mass-transit. Secondly, not enough people want to go to Detroit to necessitate building an expensive mass-transit system. When they do venture into the city for Lions/Tigers/Redwings, etc. they are not likely to abandon their cars. Finally, Detroit does not have a sufficient concentration of jobs to justify building a mass-transit system. They aren't pouring in like Manhattan. I don't have the numbers, but most white-collar types probably work in Oakland County, not Detroit.

Finally, there cannot be enough emphasis on improving public safety and the school system. Those are the main things that keep people moving out of cities and into suburbs all over the country.

[zthatzmanz28]

Originally Posted by GDK94

it's a shame how some people rather runaway from a problem instead of trying to fix it.

We have held on in MI for 20 years trying to fix it..'

OPEN the eyes...when your pay is cut EVERY YEAR, TAXES UP EVERY QUARTER, FOOD AND INSURANCE (MICHIGAN pays the HIGHEST car insurance rates in the country!)
HOUSE INSURANCE is near the top for highest.


FIX the problem?

Jenny hasn't been able to fix it in the last 6 years.

[zthatzmanz28]

Originally Posted by kazoopilot

So true.

kzoo ,aren't you LEAVING as well>??

What a difference a few months make huh??

[zthatzmanz28]

Originally Posted by GDK94

i don't understand why people like to comment on my first post, yet completely ignore my second. so i'll ask again. if detroit is in such a mess as to never be repaired, how come plces that were WORSE than detroit all of a sudden start improving? what makes detroit any different from all the other places that were either just as bad or worse? what makes detroit irreparable, yet cities like nyc, philly, newark, oakland, chicago, baltimore, DC, camden, and many more can recover? although every one of the cities are still bad, is it not true that they have all greatly improved? i remember in the early 80's i would walk down in my neighborhood, bushwick, in nyc. i saw blocks and blocks of burned out buildings, stray dogs, crack heads and junkies, graffiti everywhere (i actually miss the graffiti though, lol) and i thought my city would never recover. now, even though i hate gentrification with a passion, i see expensive condo's, rich people and all that.

Have you spent any length of TIME in Detroit? Walking the streets, going to classes at Wayne State? Teaching in the schools?

Do you even know the discussions going on in the city??

Why have other places come back from the brink of destruction?

Why will Detroit NOT make a come back?

Because DETROIT is practicing ISOLATIONISM.

They reject any outside help as RACISM

An attempt to taker over the Abyss.

Detroit will eventually IMPLODE if they continue to REJECT

COOPERATION
MULTICULTURALISM (the world is not just about BLACKS)
IT IS OK TO EMBRACE EVERY RACE
TAX MONEY IS NOT PERSONAL MONEY
IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO LIE< AND LIE SOME MORE

When did Camden ever recover??

OAKLAND?? as in CALIFORNIA?
Philly? PLEASE the city is burning like Detroit as I write this


WHO'S the mayor in these cities today?

SAME old school cronies?

MARION BERRY....ROFLMAO

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

We have held on in MI for 20 years trying to fix it..'

OPEN the eyes...when your pay is cut EVERY YEAR, TAXES UP EVERY QUARTER, FOOD AND INSURANCE (MICHIGAN pays the HIGHEST car insurance rates in the country!)
HOUSE INSURANCE is near the top for highest.


FIX the problem?

Jenny hasn't been able to fix it in the last 6 years.

Actually Michigan Car insurance is NOT the highest in the Country. Higher than some places, a lot lower than others. I moved from po-dunk Northern Maine back to Michigan and my Insurance rates are 1/2 what I paid out there (exact same vehicles, same company; better coverage here, lower deductibles here so it should have been higher priced). I switched to a Michigan Based Insurance company (Frankenmuth) and my rates dropped even more than just the move dropped them. Homeowners Insurance is about 1/3 what we were paying there for a larger, more expensive house here. Health insurance is actually about 1/4 as much, for a MUCH better policy.

For us personally pay is WAY up over other locations, and up from what it was in Michigan just 3 years ago.

Taxes? Man I laugh when I do my taxes here compared to anyplace else I have lived. Property, AND personal taxes. They are higher than what they were a couple of years ago, but still lower than they were right here in Michigan 20 years ago, and less than 1/2 what I was paying in Maine . In all honesty personal income tax rates DECREASED most years from 1983 on. In 1983 you paid 6.35% income tax, by 1994 that rate was down to 4.4%, then starting in 2000 it dropped every year until 2004 when it was down to 3.9% where it stayed until last year.

You have a hate on for Michigan and really should just get over it, or move on in your new life in NC. Instead coming back here and spewing your mis-guided and skewed view, in spite of the real facts.

[Hoarfrost]

Originally Posted by GDK94

it's a shame how some people rather runaway from a problem instead of trying to fix it.

I don't think it should be my responsibility to spend the best years of my life fixing a mess created by others.

I'll be going to University in Toronto, Montreal, Seattle, or San Francisco, possibly Boston or New York depending on how things work out.

The terrible economy is not my fault, the social/racial backwardness is not my fault, the terrible roads are not my fault, the lack of viable transit is not my fault, etc. So I'm not going to put up with it.

[Hoarfrost]

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

Have you spent any length of TIME in Detroit? Walking the streets, going to classes at Wayne State? Teaching in the schools?

Do you even know the discussions going on in the city??

Why have other places come back from the brink of destruction?

Why will Detroit NOT make a come back?

Because DETROIT is practicing ISOLATIONISM.

They reject any outside help as RACISM

An attempt to taker over the Abyss.

Detroit will eventually IMPLODE if they continue to REJECT

COOPERATION
MULTICULTURALISM (the world is not just about BLACKS)
IT IS OK TO EMBRACE EVERY RACE
TAX MONEY IS NOT PERSONAL MONEY
IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE TO LIE< AND LIE SOME MORE

When did Camden ever recover??

OAKLAND?? as in CALIFORNIA?
Philly? PLEASE the city is burning like Detroit as I write this


WHO'S the mayor in these cities today?

SAME old school cronies?

MARION BERRY....ROFLMAO

Huh? Marion Berry is no longer mayor of DC. And Philadelphia is on the upswing as we speak. Real estate in Center City and the West end around the Universities is rocketing because people are going in droves to get the New York atmosphere without the New York costs.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Hoarfrost

Huh? Marion Berry is no longer mayor of DC. And Philadelphia is on the upswing as we speak. Real estate in Center City and the West end around the Universities is rocketing because people are going in droves to get the New York atmosphere without the New York costs.

Isn't he a DC city councilman (or whatever board they have)?