Is Detroit like Cleveland? (Ann Arbor, Royal Oak: houses, condos, rent)

[TheProf]

^I don't understand where you're going, Cato. However you want to try and knock Philly and SEPTA and/or make excuses for Detroit, there's no doubt that from a functioning, healthy neighborhood, transit-friendly, ... you name it, Philly's got it all over Detroit. I'm not positing that either Philly or SEPTA are perfect. That city has trash and horrible slums like you wouldn't believe and that transit system -- certainly by top world standards and even a few new/great American systems like D.C. METRO, is old, creaky and leaves a lot to be desired.

STILL, Philly's light years ahead of Detroit. Downtown Philly looks like Manhattan or the Chicago Loop compared to Detroit. And SEPTA – a large part of its downtown success -- has high-speed rail (regional rail lines and subway/rapid rail) sprouting from Center City (downtown) like Detroit's freeways. And no, though Detroit is younger than Philly, it's hardly a new city. How do you account for the fact that even Cleveland, a city contemporary to; regionally similar and yet half Detroit's size and a quality transit system, with rail? And Cleveland's in the process of expanding to both bus rapid transit down its main artery and working on building commuter rail lines.

... again, I ask, rather than circle the wagons around Detroit, why not admit Detroit, while showing some signs of recover, has a long, long way to go just to catch up with even the average American city and that, until it collectively gets off its can, like L.A., and start building rapid rail transit, it's recovery is going to have serious limitations?

[Subprime5]

The Prof,

You brougt some really good points about Detroit. I have family there on my fathers side, and I have to say that it is the worst major city in the U.S. IMO. My relatives all live in the inner city. I go there on average once every ten years! lol!.. It is so depressing and I can't stand it. Don't let the people see that you have a car with an out of state license plate! Oh my! It is also the most polar city I have ever been to (in regards to the have's and the have not's). I don't think it can recover from it's status as rust belt city the way that Cleveland is in the slow process of doing.

[TheProf]

^and don't get me wrong, my intent isn't to engage in a Detroit rag-fest. This city has a great history and, even in its current difficult (though improving) state, a lot of potential. It's happening, now, esp in the Cass corridor around WSU, and I like what's going on downtown on Woodward in and around Campus Martius; and the new Riverwalk promises to be nice... Greektown’s getting even stronger, esp around the 5-year old casino. But it could be so much more. But to me, the key piece is finally getting off its collective butts and building quality mass transit.

Consider this LA subway article in Philly.com's travel section last Sunday:

L.A. subway? Seriously | Inquirer | 06/10/2007

Look at how transit is transforming LA, THE car capital (driving-wise) of America. There, now, are actually significantly pedestrian-oriented parts of LA, now, esp Hollywood. Who'd a thunk it? As the writer notes, the automobile, while THE toll for mobile convenience in modern society, is so off-putting on a human scale. You can't feel a city behind a steering wheel and looking out at city people through your windshield as though they're as distant as actors on a movie screen. There's a negative thread elsewhere on this board called "16 Mile?" ... think about that? People are moving (at least) 16 miles out to run away from the city (and as one jerk in that thread notes, for racial reasons). Freeways really help facilitate this...

... transit, meanwhile, can help unify the metropolis and bring them downtown. Cleveland's learned this with the rail transit it has. It's not enough, but it's something (and soon to be growing with commuter rail lines coming to town). Hopefully, Detroit can stop its suburbs dictating their anti-transit gospel to the city and get started building rail. Much of the positive future of the city depends on it.

[librazebra]

I've only been to Cleveland once, years ago for a gig in the late 80's, my band played at a local bar. What I do remember is that Cleveland was similar to Detroit at the time, just a bit cleaner. I've lived in my current neighborhood most of my life, just north of Henry Ford Hospital on West Grand Blvd (if you wanna map quest it), and the 'hood' has changed a great deal since I was a kid. I was born a few months after the riots in 1967, and all I remember about the aftermath of that (some years later) was the burned and hollowed out store fronts on 12th street, now named Rosa Parks Blvd. Later those stores where bull dosed, and replaced with a mini mall. The neighborhhood everywhere else was looking pretty good, I used to marvel at those perfectly manicured lawns, and I wanted my dad to buy a lawn edger so we could look like every other lawn around. I mention all this because once upon a time most folks in the city cared about their homes, no matter the income. Some could blame it on the lack of home ownership, and renters who simply feel no real connection to their place of residency, call it complacency, I call it down right laziness! No matter where you live, or what the circumstance, one should always care for their surroundings. Half of my city block is gone, due to fires..... I find that to be amazing! (and fishy). Lots of area's in Detroit look like that, burned out, abandoned, and crime seems to follow, some drug dealers move into a seemingly unclaimed home and set up shop, awful really...
But a few blocks away you'll find the cutest little neighborhood, with children playing football in the street, and mothers calling them in for dinner, just like any neighborhood in the suburbs. Places like Indian Village, Boston Edison Historical District, University Subdivision (U of D, Mary Grove college area), Rosedale, Warrendale (on the border of Detroit and Dearborn), New Center area (near Fisher Bldg), The Cultural Center area (in and around Wayne State University), and Harbortown just off the Detroit River, kinda swanky...
There are a ton of Lofts appearing all over the place, both new construction and refurbished bldgs. Downtown looks wonderful, Comerica Park, and Ford Field, Hockeytown restaurant and bar, Fox Theatre, State Theatre, and there are new stores opening up. But I find that there is no real foot traffic downtown, except during business hours during the week, and special events like a Tigers baseball game, or the Lions football games (someday they just might actually 'play' a game and win!) There are all kinds of nooks and crannies here, it all depends on what you are looking for in a city environment. I love my city, but the jobs are few, and the car industry is struggling, hence all the unemployment, and the lack of support for local stores and such, it makes it really hard to live here. My husband and I are looking into moving to Colorado Springs, CO. Beautiful city, and there are jobs there, higher pay scale, cheaper houseing, cleaner air, and lower crime.
I hope I provided some insight, I could go on because I have a lot more to say about Detroit, but I think that I've said enough already.

[TheProf]

^as a Cleveland native, I'm envious of the several in-city Detroit neighborhoods w/ those gigantic, goreous old homes. Cleveland has a few nice such areas, but not nearly as many, and even in our best (Edgewater nestled on Lake Erie next to the Lakewood Gold Coast), the homes are nearly as big as in Detroit's Palmer Park.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by TheProf

^as a Cleveland native, I'm envious of the several in-city Detroit neighborhoods w/ those gigantic, goreous old homes. Cleveland has a few nice such areas, but not nearly as many, and even in our best (Edgewater nestled on Lake Erie next to the Lakewood Gold Coast), the homes are nearly as big as in Detroit's Palmer Park.

As a California native, the old neighborhoods here just blow us away! My wife and I will simply drive down the streets just to goggle at those georgeous old homes....

So different (and better) than the crackerbox subdivisions that dominate Cali!

[dmetro]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

As a California native, the old neighborhoods here just blow us away! My wife and I will simply drive down the streets just to goggle at those georgeous old homes....

So different (and better) than the crackerbox subdivisions that dominate Cali!

Unfortunately, all these neighborhoods are located in the city, and they have a lot of potential that will never be realized.

[Guardian]

Originally Posted by dmetro

Unfortunately, all these neighborhoods are located in the city, and they have a lot of potential that will never be realized.

Are you kidding? In many neighborhoods towards Downtown homes are being restored and new ones are being built. In Brush Park a great example of this is Edmund Place. Once it was an old crumbling mansion but now it has been restored into condos.



Another example from Brush Park is the Ransom Gillis house. Just a few years ago it looked like this,



But now it has been stabilized and will soon be redeveloped.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by Guardian

Are you kidding? In many neighborhoods towards Downtown homes are being restored and new ones are being built. In Brush Park a great example of this is Edmund Place. Once it was an old crumbling mansion but now it has been restored into condos.



Another example from Brush Park is the Ransom Gillis house. Just a few years ago it looked like this,



But now it has been stabilized and will soon be redeveloped.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Guardian again. Dang it!

These buildings are beautiful. There is too much of this beauty to allow it to permanently go to waist!

[duff30329]

" Please know there are good parts of the city (that I haven't seen yet), and a few good schools in those parts. It's very segregated, so basically everything the Civil Rights Movement was for sort of just skipped the Detroit region."

After the 1967 riots a person would have to be completely crazy to want to live around people who take no pride in their enviroment or their city.
Yes, self-imposed segregation exists for a valid reason.
When I visited a few years ago and saw the once-beautiful cape cod type of house we once lived in, I was sickened. Boarded up, the carefully kept lawn was back to scrubland and shells of burned out autos littered the street.
Detroit is the worst armpit of American cities...surely Cleveland can't be that bad-or could it?