Is Detroit like Cleveland?

[Cle440]

Detroit and Cleveland have many similarities. Cleveland is basically a smaller version of Detroit. They both have very high crime rates and many murders. They both have major decay, probably more than any other large cities in the country. Detroit is more decayed than Cleveland though, but Cleveland definetely has huge ghetto areas. Cleveland is about 60% black while Detroit is about 80%, so not too different. They are both Midwest cities with high unemployment rates, Cleveland 9%, Detroit 14% (Minneapolis has 4%).

As far as weather they both get about the same amount of snow. Cleveland gets about 50 inches and Detroit gets about 40 inches. The summers in the cities is about the same, a lot of days in the 80s and 90s with high humidity. Detroit has casinos and Cleveland doesnt (yet). I would say overall the Cleveland area is nicer than the Detroit area. They both have about the same amount of things going on and they both have 3 major sports teams and a hockey team.

Cleveland=Detroit
But Cleveland is smaller.

[TheCLE]

Obviously, I'm from Cleveland, but Detroit is my second city. It's definetly big brother and little brother. Both are very similar.

After reading these posts, the things that bother me is that Detroit people think that the D has more diverse neighborhoods. That's simply not the case. Clevealand, IMO, is much more diverse. Maybe they don't have the name "Mexicantown" or Asia Town" but Cleveland has it's ethnic enclaves.

On the West side you have Kamms Corners (Irish), Ohio City (Detroit has Mexicantown, OC could be 'Puerto Ricantown'). You then have Chinatown (it's a real Chinatown too) on the east side. Along with Slavic Village and Murray Hill (Italians). There are many more I could name. P.S. all these Cleveland neighborhoods are more diverse than what their names say.

Also, for downtown, Cleveland, and this is just personal observation, is on par, if not bigger and more vibrant, than Detroit. That shouldn't be the case since Detroit is double the size of Cleveland. Not that it makes a downtown but Key Tower is taller than any building in downtown Detroit. Going off skyscrapers.com, Detroit has 177 high-rise buildings. Cleveland has 124.

Finally, as for music, Cleveland stacks up pretty well. Yeah, Detroit is Motown, but Cleveland (and Northeast Ohio) has made it's mark in soul. Not all soul is "Motown". As for the hip hop scene, let's not forget it was Bone that put the Midwest on the hip hop map. Detroit may have passed Cleveland up in that regard, but Cleveland still has an upcoming hip hop scene. With Mick Boogie being regarded as one of the top mixtape kings, that scene will make it's way back up.

As for entertainment (clubs restaruants), Cleveland is easily on par with Detroit. W. 6th, the Flats (west bank) and Lakewood (which though isn't in Cleveland is only a couple miles from downtown) are as good as any in Detroit.

In ending, in Cleveland you have positive steps, but you still have high crime, high poverty, abandonment, etc. In Detroit, you have postive steps, but high crime, high poverty, abandonment.

But here is what I find interesting. Detroit and Cleveland are bascially mirror images. But Cleveland is trying to be Chicago, while it seems Detroit is trying to be Cleveland. Shouldn't Detroit be trying to be like Chicago also? That's the big difference. Detroit needs to aim higher, IMO. Instead of Detroit or Cleveland trying to be like one another, they should both try to be like Chicago (the greatest city in America, IMO). One city is doing that, the other isn't.

[TheProf]

re Cleveland: Ohio City is MUCH more diverse than just having Puerto Ricans. There is a substantial Arab and Indian population also...

The lack of rail/quality mass transit really hurts Detroit and its total auto-orientation makes it seem more sprawling.

[Jason D]

I'm curious as to what mass transit in Cleveland is like? What kind? Good/Bad/Indiffernt? How expansive? etc.... Just what your observations are about it.

[TheProf]

I would say mass transit is very good, well above avg for a city of its size, but not quite excellent. It is unusual for a mediums-sized town in having 2 rail systems (and 3 separate lines of roughly 32 miles): heavy and light rail... But the system, started over 80 years ago, is not extensive enough and hasn’t kept pace with suburban sprawl... That said, most popular areas downtown, and on the near East & West sides are served by the rapid transit system; many of these are great walking areas made all the more-so by rail (like Shaker Square, downtown (E. 4th/Gateway & Warehouse District), Ohio City, Little Italy, parts of Edgewater and the Flats --- well, when it comes back in a few years.... Downtown really could use a subway distributor, but that apparently was defeated several times and will not be built. But downtown's pretty compact and walkable anyway.

Despite being an older American rapid rail system, most stations either are or will soon be modernized and are nice, spacious and attractive. 3 more Red Line stations are being upgraded this year; 2 of which will be tied into TOD projects.

One nifty tool is the Red Line (heavy rail) high-speed (24 mins) connection is from inside Tower City – the neat/huge mixed use mall/office/hotel complex in the center of downtown to directly inside Hopkins International Airport (about 12 miles) – we were the 1st in the Western Hemisphere (1968) to build such a connection…

The bus system supplements and extends rail in many instances, and is generally excellent... Again, considering the city's size, Cleveland seems to have more express buses and freeway "flyer" buses than most cities. Curious is a new system nearing completion called Bus Rapid Transit along the Euclid Avenue Corridor (Euclid being Cleveland's main street)... It will have many characteristics of a rapid train: stations, higher speed (than regular buses) and long accordion train-like buses. Many leaders are hoping BRT will revive the Euclid Midtown corridor long in decay -- signs point to this happening already, esp around Cleveland State U.

In the future, the region is looking to bring back commuter rail... One that looks like it's going to be a go is called the West Shore Line which was borne of a grass roots efforts where, recently, the Feds authorized $$ for study and planning. It will probably start with old, used diesel commuter equipment, probably from Chicago which is modernizing...

All in all, as you can see, Cleveland's pretty well off and fairly progressive for a medium-size Midwestern Rust Belt city of moderate overall density. And though its a car-oriented city, as most American cities are, esp West of the Alleghenies like Cleveland, one can actually go car free in several in-city and close in suburban areas...

Oh yes, and while fares have gone up and will go up again come Monday ($1.50 local bus, $1.75 express and rapid transit; no transfers but $4.00 for all-day/unlimited ride passes), its much cheaper than most rail-based cities, esp those in the East + Chicago...

Hope that helps...

[Jason D]

Thanks for the insightful post prof. ^ Too bad we don't have that in Motown.

P.S. Is your greyhound terminal as eccentric as it was a decade ago? The handful of times I've been to Cleveland was there and that long ago. I'm not trying to make jokes but, it always kind of seemed like a little ice rink to me. I actually kind of enjoyed it.

[TheProf]

Jason D, I picked someone up a The Hound station a few years ago, but didn't go in... I've heard they've spruced it up a bit, but well... at least the've kept that nifty Art Deco sign out front.