NY Times Article on Grosse Pointe (Detroit, Ann Arbor: city hall, best schools, universities)

[hsw]

Detroit is more dramatic but many old industrial regions have similar dynamics....Cleveland, StLouis, Milwaukee, Phila, Balt, etc

And many "new" SunBelt regions like Phoenix or FL or Atlanta or Houston or San Diego, etc have dubious career opportunities for well-educated, talented kids (consider where top grads of colleges like Harvard or Stanford migrate for jobs; it ain't the "Sun Belt")

As others have pointed out, if one is a smart kid who finishes high school in suburban Detroit (or any of other similar cities), will likely go to college in Northeast or CA; post-college, best career opportunities are in places like Manhattan or Silicon Valley (consider google co-founder Larry Page grew up in MI; did undergrad at UM and left for Stanford, never to return) or Chicago

Ironically, suburbs like Bloomfield Hills are rather costly vs peers in Chicago or SF or NYC; MI state income tax rate is far above IL's 3% rate; and 25 yrs ago Bloomfield had superb public schools which have since degenerated into mediocrity, so parents need to pay $30K/yr/kid for pvt schools (much like in CA or NYC)

Lack of opportunities for new wealth creation, high taxes and high cost of living....it's a toxic combination esp when nearby Chicago has one of world's best balanced economies; a high QOL both in city and in Winnetka/LakeForest; and a moderate COL (lower than Bloomfield's COL)

Competition and free markets....regions need to earn loyalty of residents and continually attract (and retain) talented young people; it's a two-way dynamic; no one has a birthright to live in a region's most desirable areas, nor does any region have unearned claim on most talented people

[alwaystraveling25]

Originally Posted by hsw

Detroit is more dramatic but many old industrial regions have similar dynamics....Cleveland, StLouis, Milwaukee, Phila, Balt, etc

And many "new" SunBelt regions like Phoenix or FL or Atlanta or Houston or San Diego, etc have dubious career opportunities for well-educated, talented kids (consider where top grads of colleges like Harvard or Stanford migrate for jobs; it ain't the "Sun Belt")

As others have pointed out, if one is a smart kid who finishes high school in suburban Detroit (or any of other similar cities), will likely go to college in Northeast or CA; post-college, best career opportunities are in places like Manhattan or Silicon Valley (consider google co-founder Larry Page grew up in MI; did undergrad at UM and left for Stanford, never to return) or Chicago

Ironically, suburbs like Bloomfield Hills are rather costly vs peers in Chicago or SF or NYC; MI state income tax rate is far above IL's 3% rate; and 25 yrs ago Bloomfield had superb public schools which have since degenerated into mediocrity, so parents need to pay $30K/yr/kid for pvt schools (much like in CA or NYC)

Lack of opportunities for new wealth creation, high taxes and high cost of living....it's a toxic combination esp when nearby Chicago has one of world's best balanced economies; a high QOL both in city and in Winnetka/LakeForest; and a moderate COL (lower than Bloomfield's COL)

Competition and free markets....regions need to earn loyalty of residents and continually attract (and retain) talented young people; it's a two-way dynamic; no one has a birthright to live in a region's most desirable areas, nor does any region have unearned claim on most talented people

Couldn't agree with you more about Chicago...I attended a public university in Michigan, received my undergraduate degree, then promptly moved out-of-state, eventually relocating to Chicago. About 1/5th of the people I meet in Chicago in their mid 20's are from Michigan and went to MSU, CMU, WMU, or UM. They all never even thought to stay in Metro Detroit (some are affluent from Oakland County and other are plain joes like me from Downriver). We all saw Chicago as having a young, hip, place to be with tons of jobs and other great opportunities...Chicago is really America's "Third Coast".

The closest thing Detroit has to my area of Chicago (Lakeview/Lincoln Park) is Royal Oak, which only on Main Street is comparable to life in the Windy City.

[Bluefly]

I've often felt that the Great Lake states would do well to form a unified governance so that Michigan isn't competing with Chicago or Toledo with Saginaw for jobs. They can market the region and attract industries and vacationers and retirees and all the rest as a cohesive whole. Perhaps Chicago is the epicenter, but maybe Detroit emerges as an entertainment destination or niche industry. Then, it's not that big a deal whether people go to Chicago or not.

The whole region lives or dies as one. Even Chicago's losing population as it starts to fade into fly-over country. Its crime rate is certainly nothing to be proud of.

[alwaystraveling25]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

The whole region lives or dies as one. Even Chicago's losing population as it starts to fade into fly-over country. Its crime rate is certainly nothing to be proud of.

Sorry, but I don't quite agree. I don't think Chicago is "fading" at all. It is the third largest city in the US, and quite a few Fortune 500 and 100 Companies are based in the city and the suburbs.

Yeah, the crime rate is high, but compare the Crime Rate in Chicago to the Crime Rate in Detroit. In Chicago, the Crime is mainly in the South Side, and a lot of the areas are pretty crime-free and gentrified.

If I didn't have upstairs neighbors who just moved here from Washington, D.C. after living in San Francisco and New York City, I would believe you.

Some sort of unified government is a good idea, but it will never fly. Each State will always act in what's in the best interest for their own state.

[Bluefly]

Congratulations. Chicago's crime rate is lower than Detroit's. Aim high, baby!

Of course there's great places to live and a high quality of life in Chicago, but the fact remains that it hasn't really attracted many new industries in the past couple decades (missed out on the Internet thing even though it was sitting in their laps).

And, I'm baffled as to why whether or not you agree is even a factor. It's a fact that the city of Chicago is losing population. Over 50,000 in the past few years. It's the anchor of the Great Lakes, obviously, and I believe it should serve as the hub of a renewal, but it's not holding on population wise.

[scolls]

Originally Posted by alwaystraveling25

Sorry, but I don't quite agree. I don't think Chicago is "fading" at all. It is the third largest city in the US, and quite a few Fortune 500 and 100 Companies are based in the city and the suburbs.

Yeah, the crime rate is high, but compare the Crime Rate in Chicago to the Crime Rate in Detroit. In Chicago, the Crime is mainly in the South Side, and a lot of the areas are pretty crime-free and gentrified.

If I didn't have upstairs neighbors who just moved here from Washington, D.C. after living in San Francisco and New York City, I would believe you.

Some sort of unified government is a good idea, but it will never fly. Each State will always act in what's in the best interest for their own state.

Chicago isn't going to be third for long. Houston is fast approaching Chicago. All cities in the midwest has lost population. Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, even Philadelphia.

[Cato the Elder]

Population trends aren't the end all; it's about quality, not quantity. Places like TX and NC will do well because its population is being filled by creative and skilled newcomers (fleeing from CA and the Rust Belt), not because there are just more warm bodies. How great is SoCal and AZ doing with the boom largely caused by immigrants, illegal and otherwise? Their educational and health systems were certainly not designed to take such a large influx of ESL people with no family history of education.

I think it would benefit, not harm, MI if many of the "uncreative" and unskilled population moved out, especially since the days of people like Henry Ford promising good pay for four limbs is long gone. This is why we need more skilled industries such as alternative energy and entertainment to keep these people when the economy rebounds. Right now, everywhere is bad but how much worse will the skilled workforce drain be once the other states pick up and MI is still wondering where the Big 3 et al went?

[Bluefly]

I feel like there's a place for Detroit as a regional entertainment destination, perhaps not unlike New Orleans in some ways. Just seems like with all the theatres, casinos, nightclubs, and restaurants, it could get its foot back in the door. Then you have the movie studios adding a little pizazz to that and soon enough Detroit's the edgy, unrefined hip place to get away from Toronto or Chicago for a weekend.

But, I don't know. Just doesn't seem to happen.

[US-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Dexterguy

I know that many of the residents of the Grosse Pointes and Bloomfield Hills are all older people whose children have already moved out of Michigan (at least a large bulk). Many of them are all salary retirees from the Detroit Three. The schools in these upscale suburbs are having a hard to keeping their prestige image that they once had, as they are forced to close schools due to a declining tax base and enrollment.

One day these upscale suburbs will come back though, we just need to diversify the local economy...I'M STAYING POSITIVE!

I am from Chicago and I remember reading an article in the Wall Street Journal about how Bloomfield Hills's school system is struggling because of so many openings. I think the article said they have begun to pull students from inner-city Detroit into the local schools.

I agree that many of the upscale suburbs of Detroit will come back one day along with Detroit. Your state and local governments will have to make good choices. Your taxes are too high. They are higher than Illinois and Illinois isn't a great corporate climate either. You also need to become a Right-to-Work state and get rid of your unions otherwise you'll continue to lose jobs to red states in the south and mountain west. If your state and local governments fix those two simple issues Michigan will be right on track to recover and it will recover sooner than you think.

[US-Traveller]

Originally Posted by alwaystraveling25

Sorry, but I don't quite agree. I don't think Chicago is "fading" at all. It is the third largest city in the US, and quite a few Fortune 500 and 100 Companies are based in the city and the suburbs.

Yeah, the crime rate is high, but compare the Crime Rate in Chicago to the Crime Rate in Detroit. In Chicago, the Crime is mainly in the South Side, and a lot of the areas are pretty crime-free and gentrified.

If I didn't have upstairs neighbors who just moved here from Washington, D.C. after living in San Francisco and New York City, I would believe you.

Some sort of unified government is a good idea, but it will never fly. Each State will always act in what's in the best interest for their own state.

Chicago has faded significantly over the years. We've lost many industrial jobs. I think the population is 1 million less than it was in the 1970's! We are the third largest city and we are either the second or third most important financial center (either in front of or behind Charlotte, NC). We don't have that many Fortune companies, but we do have our fair share. Atlanta has more and several other small cities do as well.

Our crime rate is very high, but the upscale areas are safer than many of the suburban areas. The bulk of our crime rate is centered in south side neighborhoods like Englewood and west side neighborhoods like Austin.

Chicago is a fabulous city. I live in Chicago, but I don't want to exaggerate about its positives.