Recent visit to Detroit - insight into race relations?

[Tiger Beer]

I lived in NYC for a few years, and I could walk all over Manhattan at 3am or 4am, no problem. I also didn't feel unsafe in Queens...and generally didnt in Brooklyn most of the time either, except late at night. A girlfriend lived in Brooklyn about 20 minutes walk from the subway, so at times a bit concerned at 1am or whatever.

But Detroit, I would be IN A CAR...and driving around, and in the middle of the day...and not feel safe.

Statically as well, NYC is one of the safest large cities in the country, and Detroit is one of the least safe. A person could make an argument it is under-reporting...but I don't know. It would be a REAL stretch...besides what about Washington DC? It is one of the most violent cities in the U.S. right up there with Detroit. If there was some massive goverment coverup to make NYC sound good, wouldn't the same massive government coverup do the same with Washington DC? The city that runs our country?

[teejuris]

@ Tiger Beer:What we haven't addressed are the racial implications or overtones of this scenario-something Americans don't like to discuss, minimize, or disregard/ignore altogether. Thanks for highlighting DC-Both Detroit and D.C. are heavily populated by African Americans, despite the fact that the White House sits in the D.C. There is a significant number of blacks in both Chicago and NY, however, those cities are not stereotyped as "black cities" as are D.C. and Detroit. And, yes, the sense of threat for your safety was greater/more heightened in Detroit because you probably entered/traveled there w/ preconceived notions, biases and stereotypes of Detroit, whether you were aware of this, or not. Underreporting re: other cities and bias/unfair reporting are DEFINITELY factors. It is what it is...

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by teejuris

@ Tiger Beer:What we haven't addressed are the racial implications or overtones of this scenario-something Americans don't like to discuss, minimize, or disregard/ignore altogether. Thanks for highlighting DC-Both Detroit and D.C. are heavily populated by African Americans, despite the fact that the White House sits in the D.C. There is a significant number of blacks in both Chicago and NY, however, those cities are not stereotyped as "black cities" as are D.C. and Detroit. And, yes, the sense of threat for your safety was greater/more heightened in Detroit because you probably entered/traveled there w/ preconceived notions, biases and stereotypes of Detroit, whether you were aware of this, or not. Underreporting re: other cities and bias/unfair reporting are DEFINITELY factors. It is what it is...

I can see where you are getting at...I think your point is that white people who live in white areas, and drive to black areas, have preconceived notions and therefore heightened perceived threats, etc.

HOWEVER...one thing you've failed to take into account...is that many white people live with blacks as neighbors and live in mixed neighborhoods, etc. PARTICULARLY in cities like New York, etc. I know I have.

[TheseGoTo11]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

besides what about Washington DC?

Our homicide rate is on course this year to be the lowest in over 40 years, and has fallen below Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, and other crime capitals.

Also, 40% of adults living within DC city limits have at least a Bachelor's degree, compared to 11% in Detroit. In addition to a large white population west of Rock Creek Park, many of the African-American neighborhoods within the DC area report educational attainment above national averages.

[teejuris]

@ Tiger Beer:I believe "many whites" living w/ blacks in mixed neighborhoods in inner cities across the country is pushing or stretching it a bit. This point also depends on how you're defining "mixed neighborhood". I've heard white suburbanites say their neighborhoods are "diverse" and "mixed" if there is ONE black, Indian, or Asian family in the area. So, these terms or characterizations are relative.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by teejuris

@ Tiger Beer:I believe "many whites" living w/ blacks in mixed neighborhoods in inner cities across the country is pushing or stretching it a bit. This point also depends on how you're defining "mixed neighborhood". I've heard white suburbanites say their neighborhoods are "diverse" and "mixed" if there is ONE black, Indian, or Asian family in the area. So, these terms or characterizations are relative.

I suppose you'd have to visit or live in New York City.

There are not white suburbanite areas in NYC that I'm aware of. Anyways, I was living in Washington Heights and Brooklyn. Washington Heights is predominately Dominican with a mix of other people. Brooklyn has all kinds of ethnic neighorhoods, I was living in a predominate Puerto Rican neighborhood in Brooklyn. A lot of whites and blacks and everyone else there as well. All kinds of people.

Anyways, those are in the city of New York itself. I am unsure about white suburbs around NYC. No idea where those would be at...most suburbs even are a large mix of people as well - at least in NYC.

Detroit is more as you describe, white suburbs and Detroit being mostly black. Actually, Detroit is probably the most segregated city in the country in that way.

Anyways, the people of NYC & Detroit and their greater regions are night and day differnent, really no comparisons whatsoever.

I get where you're coming from...white people who live in white suburbs who think they are in mixed neighborhoods when a family lives on the block who isn't white...on and on. Actually this sounds more like 1950...but okay, got your point. If that happens in some places in America, than those white people might be scared to visit a Detroit, etc. Got it.

[snoopygirlmi]

After hearing about the serial rapist on the news last night, I am less likely to go down to Detroit and walk around than I was before I heard about it. However, it's also creepy when you hear about a jogger in Ypsi being attacked by a black guy in what's supposed to be a good, clean park/area. And don't forget the purse snatchers who have been stealing purses out of shopping carts in Livonia/Northville area.

There's a lot of unemployment in the area and crime goes up with unemployment. We've all seen the stories about the drug stores getting their ATM's stolen and bank robberies and such - we know it goes on, but if we focus on the bad then we think the world is bad in general.

There are decent areas of downtown, but as a white lady who's usually down there with my toddler, I try to stay in those areas and take precautions, like knowing my surroundings and paying attention, when I'm down there - like I do in the 'burbs too. You really can't be too careful nowadays, regardless of where you are.

More power to you for going down there and doing research on urban decay because a lot of people won't go down there for any reason at all, but going into abandoned buildings is insane because there are a lot of homeless people/junkies/others hanging out in them. Like the guy they found frozen in an abandoned building and he'd been there for a few months - I forget the details, but there's just creepy stuff that goes on down there - you really should have just stayed with your friend until you got out of the neighborhood.

Also, like you said, the race issue is a lot different here than other places. There are other areas of the country where race isn't as big of a deal as it is here in the Metro area.

I'm not a native of the area and this area may not have a physical wall on 8 mile, but there are a lot of places where you get the vibe that you aren't welcome - you also get that in some of the 'burbs because people are just really cautious about strangers and a lot of people just seem to have a chip on their shoulder. I don't have a problem with people being assertive, but I just don't like people who talk at me with an attitude when I'm talking to them like I would any other person.

[teejuris]

@ Tiger Beer:I've been to New York a few times, and I agree: New York is probably the most diverse inner city to which I've traveled. There's even much diversity w/n "black hue" category (Jamaicans, Nigerians, Hatians, Columbian, Puerto Rican, etc). One definitely can't see a darker-skinned person in NY, and assume he/she is black/Af. Am.Maybe my perception of "inner city" is tainted because Detroit is so segregated. Ironically, most Detroiters and their suburban counterparts are just fine w/ that arrangement... The "inner cities" that are typically featured and reported on in relation to crime/unsafe living conditions are those such as Detroit, New Orleans, Washington, D.C., Compton, etc-areas that are largely populated by blacks.