Detroit and its surronding suburds/cities (Warren, Flint: crime rates, houses, job market)

[krsheely]

Im not from the MI area and have never been, but i was curious to one thing. Are the cities and suburbs in the detroit metro area growing and if so what sort of pace. I saw some stat somewhere that showed the metro area of detroit to be one of the larger in the country while the actual city population is declining. If this is the case how if at all is the job market in the area, is it very diversified with many different employment options?

And if this is the case and many many people do choose to live in these suburbs why do people have such a bad outlook on the city? If its so bad why only move 20 minutes away? Also could something or is something similar to how my home city indianapolis did to make our crime stats seem better, we just took the good areas (suburbs) and made them part of our city, problem solved. People think its great here when it comes to crime. In the 80's and 90's we had a rust belt stigma and bad crime rates. The actual part that used to be that way then is still that way, we've just added better areas to our tax base not the best solution but it helped, people in from the metro areas say they are from Indy, not the name of the suburb.

[scolls]

It's really involved but to start, the metro Detroit area is very segregated. Detroit is over 80% black, while neighboring cities like Grosse Pointe, Warren, etc are near 90% white. Most people work in the suburbs. When the big 3 starting building factories in the 60's, they were building them in communites like Warren and Sterling Heights which lead to urban sprawl. Most people like to distance themselves from Detroit so you'll see dividing line such as 8 Mile. Now I believe it is 16 mile or Hall Rd. Cities like Warren, Eastpointe, Roseville, Harper Woods etc have lost population because everybody feels they need to be as far away from Detroit as possible. Their perfectly livable communities, but due to their proximity to Detroit and the lack of houses over 2000 sq. ft, most people will tell you to avoid them.

[Jwo85]

A lot of the Detroit Black community mentality is "Why are you acting so white?"

I have heard stories from a lot of young black people that their family and friends will make fun of them for trying to be productive in society and they get called names like that about trying to be white.

[Dexterguy]

You could make an essay out of the questions that you have asked. But to make it short, obviously Detroit is the core, central, and original city. In the 1930's, 1940's, and early 1950's the inner ring suburbs (the suburbs that touch Detroit proper) began developing. As mentioned, segregation has always been a part of Detroit's history whether you like it or not. The city proper was mostly white until the mid 1960's when Detroit's Black population really began to rise. This is when the big exodus began into "newer" suburbs like Warren, Eastpointe (East Detroit), Harper Woods, Roseville, etc. Once many of the population moved to suburban homes, so did the business, including many of the auto factories.

Detroit city proper has been for decades, since the 1950's, when the exodus began. But the inner suburbs are also beginning to see decline in the past 10-15 years. Some have gotten hit harder than others, like Warren, Eastpointe, and Harper Woods have seen some hard days. While others are holding pretty well, like the Grosse Pointes, Ferndale, Pleasant Ridge, and Hunington Woods. Even the more upscale suburbs are seeing decline now although, because of a aging population. Communities that have gotten hit by its aging population include Bloomfield Hills, the Pointes, and the surrounding areas.

The areas that are still growing in metro Detroit today are the outer suburbs and exurbs that are unincorporated townships. Cities like Novi and South Lyon are still growing. But a lot of the growth is happening in townships, like Shelby, Macomb, Washington, Lyon, Milford, and Orion.

Demographic wise, Detroit proper continues to lose Whites and Blacks, and is estimated to have a total population of 775,000 from many, but we will see for sure next year. There are many Blacks that are moving from Detroit to the inner suburbs, looking to get out of the terrible and corrupt Detroit Public Schools. And many Blacks are skipping to inner suburbs all together and moving to the outer suburbs like Macomb Twp. and the surrounding areas. There are many Whites that have stayed put in the inner suburbs, but there were and are many that are still trying to move further away from Detroit. It a little harder to do that now though, with the housing crisis. So many are just staying put. Metro Detroit's Asian population has mainly made communities in the suburbs of Troy and Novi. There are very few Asians in Detroit proper, and never really were. South-West Detroit is home to many of the Hispanics in the metro area, but many are looking at the south inner suburbs to escape the Detroit Public Schools.

[MTUCache]

Kind of unique situation in Detroit that would take years to understand fully. Even most of the people who live in and around Detroit don't know exactly how or why things are the way they are.

Fundamentally though, Detroit is "hollow". Unlike other cities where development, ecomomy, business, and money congregate in a downtown area and then radiate evenly out from there according to geography, Detroit seems to have found a way to operate completely different. Rather than a central hub of economy, it's been spread somewhat thinly over a HUGE metropolitan area (easily the size of several other "major" cities put together). Normally, in most cities, the decision about where to put your business is a no-brainer, if you want to get in on the action you've got to go where the action is (downtown). In Detroit there is no place like that. There's business centers in Dearborn, Warren, Auburn Hills, etc, etc, etc, all over the place. So if you're looking to invest in the area, the city is normally the last place you'll look.

After fifty or so years of that kind of development, the city itself has become somewhat like a blackhole with very few business making the commitment to stay there, while the suburbs have actually thrived and continued to sprawl (even as distant as the far-flung Grand Blanc, over 60 miles from Detroit). Very few people who live outside the city actually commute into the city. Rather than jobs, people come into the city almost solely for the entertainment venues. Similarly other urban centers in the area (Pontiac/Flint) have acquired the same reputation and patterns (but they lack the entertainment factor). Just a couple miles from the abject poverty of the slums of Detroit or Pontiac stand gigantic tracts of McMansions, bounded by imaginary lines that everyone seems to recognize and identify but no one can explain. Even with the current downturn in the economy, I'd expect the suburbs of Detroit to be continue being one of the most affluent areas in the country. Likewise I'd expect the economy of Detroit-proper to continue plummeting until it reaches critical mass and starts anew.

Again, this would take many pages of text (and years of experience) to really comprehend, but at its heart Detroit's business-architecture, socio-economic environment, and unlimited geographic area have allowed it to spread itself so widely and thinly that sometimes it feels like it could all collapse in on itself at the touch of a feather.

[Vicman]

Originally Posted by Jwo85

A lot of the Detroit Black community mentality is "Why are you acting so white?"

I have heard stories from a lot of young black people that their family and friends will make fun of them for trying to be productive in society and they get called names like that about trying to be white.

I find the concept that getting an education is "acting White" as silly. This sounds to me like a "defeatist" idea.

[zthatzmanz28]

Originally Posted by Vicman

I find the concept that getting an education is "acting White" as silly. This sounds to me like a "defeatist" idea.

Silly indeed. Sounds like you have been in Detroit for more than "only to see a sports game" visit.

[daddythreepointoh]

Originally Posted by MTUCache

Kind of unique situation in Detroit that would take years to understand fully. Even most of the people who live in and around Detroit don't know exactly how or why things are the way they are.

Fundamentally though, Detroit is "hollow". Unlike other cities where development, ecomomy, business, and money congregate in a downtown area and then radiate evenly out from there according to geography, Detroit seems to have found a way to operate completely different. Rather than a central hub of economy, it's been spread somewhat thinly over a HUGE metropolitan area (easily the size of several other "major" cities put together). Normally, in most cities, the decision about where to put your business is a no-brainer, if you want to get in on the action you've got to go where the action is (downtown). In Detroit there is no place like that. There's business centers in Dearborn, Warren, Auburn Hills, etc, etc, etc, all over the place. So if you're looking to invest in the area, the city is normally the last place you'll look.

After fifty or so years of that kind of development, the city itself has become somewhat like a blackhole with very few business making the commitment to stay there, while the suburbs have actually thrived and continued to sprawl (even as distant as the far-flung Grand Blanc, over 60 miles from Detroit). Very few people who live outside the city actually commute into the city. Rather than jobs, people come into the city almost solely for the entertainment venues. Similarly other urban centers in the area (Pontiac/Flint) have acquired the same reputation and patterns (but they lack the entertainment factor). Just a couple miles from the abject poverty of the slums of Detroit or Pontiac stand gigantic tracts of McMansions, bounded by imaginary lines that everyone seems to recognize and identify but no one can explain. Even with the current downturn in the economy, I'd expect the suburbs of Detroit to be continue being one of the most affluent areas in the country. Likewise I'd expect the economy of Detroit-proper to continue plummeting until it reaches critical mass and starts anew.

Again, this would take many pages of text (and years of experience) to really comprehend, but at its heart Detroit's business-architecture, socio-economic environment, and unlimited geographic area have allowed it to spread itself so widely and thinly that sometimes it feels like it could all collapse in on itself at the touch of a feather.

Brilliant post. Regarding the parts I've bolded, I live in Ortonville and have always thought that Grand Blanc was more of a suburb/exurb of Flint...

The imaginary lines you have mentioned are crazy. We moved here 3 years ago and I will never forget the first time my wife and I drove from downtown Detroit to the Pointes along Jefferson. Now, mind you, for Detroit, Jefferson is a fairly vibrant part of the city, as it runs between the Pointes (that's Grosse Pointe, one of the richest cities/suburbs in our country, to out-of-staters) and downtown Detroit, which is a nice area as well by Detroit standards. That said, it is still filled with burnt out buildings, homeless people, liquor stores, ect.

So you're driving along, taking in Detroit in all it's ghetto-fabulousness (I do not mean this as a pejoritive, but it is fitting, methinks), and you come to the intersection of Alter Rd.

We literally sat there taking it in, unaware if the light had turned green or not. On one side was shabby, and in better cases shabby-chic buildings, and across the street...perfection.

On the side we were on, all black people.

Across the street, all white people.

I'm not kidding! Then as you drive on across Alter, it's instant Presto-Chango...everything is Leave It To Beaver, June Cleaver perfection. High heals and pearls, rose gardens and private schools, manicured lawns and Jaguars.

It blew my fragile little mind. I have never seen anything like it in my life. I'm from California, which has it's share of segregation, but Cali is like a multi-cultural Utopia when compared to Michigan....

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Jwo85

A lot of the Detroit Black community mentality is "Why are you acting so white?"

I have heard stories from a lot of young black people that their family and friends will make fun of them for trying to be productive in society and they get called names like that about trying to be white.

I think it depends too. I've seen white people do that to blacks as well. So, it isn't just a Black thing. Trust me, I know from experience. Sometimes, I think people blow that out of proportion and might take something like that personally, even if the person says it in jest.

[Vicman]

Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28

Silly indeed. Sounds like you have been in Detroit for more than "only to see a sports game" visit.

I've never been to Detroit; I've been to Michigan, though.

But I have read about it at Detroitblog.org - Really, it's a wonderful blog detailing the good, the bad, and the ugly about Detroit.