Why I think Metro Detroit is Great (Grand Rapids, Royal Oak: middle-class, foreclosure)

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by mogo

Indentured, I appreciate your position on the issues you raised, but it really doesn't have anything to do with the original post. It's an interesting discussion, but it would be more relevant to a different thread.

True....I just get ticked off at all the Detroit bashers and got carried away. I did not mean to hijack the thread.

[bigwilly]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

If I want to enjoy the outdoors, I just go out my door. Why drive three hours?

I do like the views of mountains. IN OC they were rare due to smog and haze, but in Denver they are there all the time. What I missed when in Denver was trees and water. However I love the mountains. I miss the mountains in California far more than I miss the beach. Colorado is wonderful and has lots to offer. However everyplace is far more charming for the first five or ten years then it is later. Your speech sounds like mine when I first moved from Mochigan to southern California. However that speech changed over time and eventually we moved back (18 years eventually). Other places always seem better and even magical at first but fade after a long time in many cases.

You must live ont he edge of Denver. When I stayed in Denver for a time, I could not even make it to the freeway in 15 minutes, let alone deep into the mountains. It was usually at least an hour from my door to my detination in the mountains.

The problem is that when you ahve a family, your day is not about mountains, or beaches or deserts. It is about school, soccer, doctors, grandma and grandpa, groceries, work, church, baseball. These things are pretty much the same anywhere. I find that at the outside, I have one day of a weekend "free" every month, or every other month. All too often I have to work a weekend here or there. Other times I have choes to complete. Other times I have kid things to attend, family events, church events, etc. It is just not that often that you really get to spend a day at the beach, or on the trail or in a boat no matter where you live. If you live right at the base of a ski hill, or right on a river (like we do in Michigan) you may get to get out in a kayak or on skis in the evening after work or on a weekend morning before everything gets moving, but we just do nto have that much liesure time in our lives to warrant choosing a place to live by available liesure activites.


However, if you are happier in Denver than in Detroit Merto, stay there and love it. I absolutely loved California for 10 - 15 years. I still liked it when we left and I still like it now, just not as much more than Michigan as when I first left Michigan. Now, given a choice and no family issues, I woudl probably prefer to live here in Michigan than in Southern California, but it is a close call. However the Devener area might be even more appealing than Californi . However Denver als has a lack of woods and water. (there are woods in the mountains and a few streams and lakes, but I really like living right on water, I am not sure that I will ever again not live on water).

I hated Detroit metro when I left, just like you seem to. Hoever after living in and lengthy visits to a load of other places, I realized that it is really a pretty great place. In part it depends on what stage of life you are in and what your values are. Metro Deroit is not the best place for people in their mid to late twenties through maybe even as far as early or middle thirties. Later when quiet clean and calm become more important than exciting, and when you start to miss trees grass and water, the outlook changes.

I don't really miss water in metro detroit, lake st. claire is smelly and polluted. I live right by a lake now and see water more than I did in Michigan. I hear you about the newness wearing off, there are things I miss about michigan, not S.E. michigan mind you, I still think that's a hell hole. Northern michigan is great, I lived up there for half my life. Awesome place to raise a family. If there was work up there I would move there in a minute.

You live in one of the nicer areas, so it's easier for you to have a rosey outlook. I did not live in one of the nicer areas.

[huckster]

I have been here fifteen years and Michigan in general is boring, just midwestern, nothing else.
Aside from lakes and Auto Industry nothing really to do.
Texas. Mountains, Gulf coast, desert, Galveston, San ANtonio, the Hill country,
no snow blowers there you know. A lot more to do.

[ocean2026]

Detroit has some nice things - better architecture than Denver and cheaper too except for the foolish real estate taxes. Having said that I can't see any other advantage Detroit has over Denver, unless you're a criminal defense attorney...

Denver has jobs, its much safer, prettier, more educated, its taxes are lower and its cleaner.

[canudigit]

Originally Posted by bigwilly

I don't really miss water in metro detroit, lake st. claire is smelly and polluted. I live right by a lake now and see water more than I did in Michigan. I hear you about the newness wearing off, there are things I miss about michigan, not S.E. michigan mind you, I still think that's a hell hole. Northern michigan is great, I lived up there for half my life. Awesome place to raise a family. If there was work up there I would move there in a minute.

You live in one of the nicer areas, so it's easier for you to have a rosey outlook. I did not live in one of the nicer areas.

When you say that S.E. Michigan is a "hell hole", are you referring specifically to Detroit, or the entire SE corner of the state? The reason I ask is that I live in a quaint village in Monroe Co. about 20 min. outside of Ann Arbor, and it is perfectly lovely, safe, and a great place to live. The fall colors, the cornfields in the summer, the sparkling lakes...not exactly the description of a hell hole, KWIM? But then, maybe you were just referring to Detroit proper.

[mogo]

Originally Posted by huckster

I have been here fifteen years and Michigan in general is boring, just midwestern, nothing else.
Aside from lakes and Auto Industry nothing really to do.
Texas. Mountains, Gulf coast, desert, Galveston, San ANtonio, the Hill country,
no snow blowers there you know. A lot more to do.

The point I'm trying to make is that I think people get too hung up on the 2-3 things that show up on all of the postcards. Metro Detroit doesn't have much that shows up on postcards (that's where it would be nice to have a functioning major city as an anchor), but I think it has to be one of best places in the country when you consider everything else: great schools overall, colleges and universities, several nice downtown areas, all four major sports (3 of the 4 being excellent), lots of different cultures...

These aren't the things that will receive national attention, but I think it should be on the list of great places to live.

[michsnowlvr]

Originally Posted by huckster

I have been here fifteen years and Michigan in general is boring, just midwestern, nothing else.
Aside from lakes and Auto Industry nothing really to do.
Texas. Mountains, Gulf coast, desert, Galveston, San ANtonio, the Hill country,
no snow blowers there you know. A lot more to do.

lol I have to laugh at this....to call a state like MICHIGAN boring and imply there is so much more to do in TEXAS. lol. A cousin of mine moved to TX last year...there is nothing to do there in the summer because people do not leave their AC'd homes due to the oppressive heat. Texas economy-wise is doing better than Michigan, but scenery-wise, Texas is so far behind Michigan its not funny.

Its funny actually to read the negative posts in this (such as any) thread...the people posting these things seem to have so much hatred towards the area for whatever reason, and it sounds so foolish. They have to give the generic "there is nothing to do" as a reason for their hate (a phrase you can find in every single state/city forum on city-data, from people who hate that state/city).

[jeanniepep]

I think a lot of it has to do with living in a city/town/area that doesn't suit your personality. I grew up in Troy and found it totally boring, moved to Royal Oak and then to Novi in my 20's and those were okay . . . then when I got married moved to Marshall and HATED IT (man, if I thought Troy was boring!). The dumbest move was moving to North Branch to be near my family! Love my family dearly, and I can see why people like living out in the country, but it is NOT for me. I was so depressed, lonely, cold, bored - I hated Michigan with every fiber of my soul.

Then in July, I moved to Ferndale, and badaboom: I LOVE MICHIGAN! I can walk to great bars & restaurants, I can drive to amazing shopping, it's only 20 minutes to go see fabulous sports downtown, less than an hour to boat on the smaller lakes, and just over an hour to drive back up to the middle of nowhere and visit my parents whenever the spirit moves me. The best part is, I finally live in a town where so many people are just like me (liberal, no kids, social, animal lovers, beer-friendly). It's crazy to finally be able to admit out loud that we're liberals and don't want kids and still love to go out and get stupid even though I'm pushing 40 - and suddenly have so many friends that are exactly the same way!

This is certainly not to say that everyone would be happy in Ferndale. Some folks are certainly delighted to be living in Troy, Royal Oak, Novi, Marshall, North Branch, and even downtown Detroit! There's really a lot of variety in lifestyles here, the idea is to find the town that fits the way you want to live, and enjoy!

[Bluefly]

Haha - a poster called Michigan boring compared to Texas. That's great. Spend some time in Houston or Dallas and you'll realize very quickly that all people tend to do with their free time is shop.

Anyway, I'll be the first to defend metro Detroit as "far more normal than you'd think". I'd say the primary downside is transportation. The quality of life is significantly reduced for many of us in comparison to the cities with transit. I've lived in major cities on the coast and it's really frustrating to come back to Detroit and need to drive everywhere. The worst is going home after a night out - have to plan your whole night around the drive home so you don't drink too much. Never even think about it in a walkable / mass transit city. Plus, just being able to meander and move as a human should is a highly understated value.

Middle class people are abandoning the suburban structure for both ecological needs and personal desires, choosing to live again in walkable areas. Metro Detroit is severely lacking in these amenities and being able to get between the walkable areas without a car.

Perhaps the blind auto lobby will loosen up now that it's been humbled and metro Detroit can operate like a real city again, harkening back to the days before GM bought up all the trolleys and destroyed them to minimize competition. The auto era is ending in a lot of major cities. Detroit needs to wake up if it's ever going to be a world-class city.

[bigwilly]

Originally Posted by canudigit

When you say that S.E. Michigan is a "hell hole", are you referring specifically to Detroit, or the entire SE corner of the state? The reason I ask is that I live in a quaint village in Monroe Co. about 20 min. outside of Ann Arbor, and it is perfectly lovely, safe, and a great place to live. The fall colors, the cornfields in the summer, the sparkling lakes...not exactly the description of a hell hole, KWIM? But then, maybe you were just referring to Detroit proper.

Sorry, I should have said most of metro detroit is a hell hole, s.e. michigan is mostly just boring. If I ever move back to michigan it would be to traverse city or the U.P, maybe somewhere on the west side of the state.