Why I think Metro Detroit is Great (Ann Arbor, Livonia: best towns, foreclosures)

[LeavingDetroit]

I think that Indentured Servant has some good points. I do question though whether it is only white people who've fled the City. I dont have statistics to back it up, but it seems to me that middle class Blacks have also fled along with the whites. Anyone one care to agree/disagree?

[Indentured Servant]

Originally Posted by LeavingDetroit

I think that Indentured Servant has some good points. I do question though whether it is only white people who've fled the City. I dont have statistics to back it up, but it seems to me that middle class Blacks have also fled along with the whites. Anyone one care to agree/disagree?

I think when people ask such questions; it’s an indication that they are RESISTING the truth. I mean, if 1.7 million rich, middle-class and poor whites left the city of Detroit, and ONE black middle class black person or family left the city of Detroit for the suburbs, then its not ONLY whites. A person becomes President of the nation based upon the general rule of how people voted, not the exceptions to the rule. To say that America chose Barak Obama as its President is not made invalid by pointing out that some Americans did not vote for him. In the case of the flight from Detroit……of course black people and families left too, but at a much, much lesser amplitude than did whites. If blacks left the City of Detroit at the same amplitude of whites that would mean that Detroit’s black population would be 6% of the peak of black population in the city. Do the math. Detroit’s black population peaked in 2001 at 770,000 residents. That means that today there would only be approximately 42,000 blacks in the city of Detroit proper and the total city population would be about the size of Grand Rapids (assuming the white population in Detroit is the same as today) . Now, contrarily, if Detroit’s white population was 90% of its peak (like the black population is) of 1.7 million in 1950, there would be 1.5 million whites in the city of Detroit today and Detroit would still be a top five city in terms of population. So please, let’s not go searching for equivalence. The abandonment of Detroit and the subsequent entropy was most profoundly, but not exclusively, the result of white migration patterns.

[skchi]

I agree with the OP! I live in Chicago, and we have tons and tons of great stuff. But, it can get very expensive. Also, traffic is so horrible that at times you feel like you just want to stay home to avoid it.

Which Detroit suburbs are the most walkable? I have a car, but I prefer to walk when I need to go to the library, restaurants, movie theater, bookstores, etc.

[daddythreepointoh]

Originally Posted by skchi

I agree with the OP! I live in Chicago, and we have tons and tons of great stuff. But, it can get very expensive. Also, traffic is so horrible that at times you feel like you just want to stay home to avoid it.

Which Detroit suburbs are the most walkable? I have a car, but I prefer to walk when I need to go to the library, restaurants, movie theater, bookstores, etc.

I would say 2 of the most walkable would be Royal Oak and Birmingham, at least the downtown areas. Ferndale too.

[Jwo85]

Originally Posted by skchi

I agree with the OP! I live in Chicago, and we have tons and tons of great stuff. But, it can get very expensive. Also, traffic is so horrible that at times you feel like you just want to stay home to avoid it.

Which Detroit suburbs are the most walkable? I have a car, but I prefer to walk when I need to go to the library, restaurants, movie theater, bookstores, etc.

How's the construction scene out there? Here in the entire Metro Detroit area M-DOT manages to screw up a lot of the major road ways to the point like you said you just want to stay home because of inconvenience from construction and the traffic it causes. The local joke is Michigan only has three seasons. Winter, Summer, Construction.

[krock1dk]

Originally Posted by mogo

I'm not asking any question in this thread. This is simply something that I wish were pointed out more often.

When my wife and I were looking to flee the area amid the economic crisis, we looked at several cities around the country to move to (DC, Chicago, Phoenix, Denver, Miami, etc.). We kept coming back to one question: if you removed the attraction from these places that would not be part of your daily life (the beach, the mountains), are they better than Metro Detroit.

We always answered "no".

It just seems to me that there is an inordinate amount of attention paid to these places based on the things that you rarely use if you actually live there. Furthermore, all of them are ridiculously expensive compared to Metro Detroit.

If you take these places and strip them down to what they offer residents on a day-to-day basis, I have to believe that Metro Detroit is near the top of the list of great places to live in the US.

You won't find that in any of these BS surveys that Forbes and MSN keep pumping out.

Very true. Thanks for the point. I moved from Michigan to Phoenix in 2005. Been almost 5 years already! As bad off as Michigan is, Phoenix is bad as well. Arizona has seen more job losses per-capita than aywhere else. People here are losing their jobs by the thousands because the area is so reliant on services for its economic well-being. There is next to zero industry. The education here is HORRIBLE. Arizona ranks dead last--50th--among the 50 states in SAT/ACT scores, spending per pupil and graduation rates. And dont even get me started on the foreclosure mess; and its a mess! And dont forget, we laso have to most kidnappings of any US city, bad pollution, illegals on every block and very bad air. In many many ways Michigan and metro Detroit are better than Pheonix. Way better! Michigan isnt all bad by any means. for Dont believe all the hype about the warm desert sunshine Eden of Arizona. Its a lie. Its the worst place I've ever lived.

[krock1dk]

If mountains, sunshine, warmth and oceans make for a good quality of life, then why is California so bad off??? Those things are nice but mean nothing to me. They dont pay the bills, give you a good job, put food on the table and a roof over your head. When I look at a state, I focus on more important things: education, taxes, job growth and cost of living, and basically something that makes it a great place to raise a family. Heck with California and Florida!

[krock1dk]

Originally Posted by huckster

I have been here fifteen years and Michigan in general is boring, just midwestern, nothing else.
Aside from lakes and Auto Industry nothing really to do.
Texas. Mountains, Gulf coast, desert, Galveston, San ANtonio, the Hill country,
no snow blowers there you know. A lot more to do.

And just how do the 'mountains' , Gulf Coast, desert and hills give you a job, put food on the table, pay your bills and put a roof over your head? Though they are nice to visit and experience, I couldnt care any less about those things! They dont provide for me nor necessarily make it a good place to raise a family. You are believing a huge fallacy.

[mogo]

Originally Posted by krock1dk

Very true. Thanks for the point. I moved from Michigan to Phoenix in 2005. Been almost 5 years already! As bad off as Michigan is, Phoenix is bad as well. Arizona has seen more job losses per-capita than aywhere else. People here are losing their jobs by the thousands because the area is so reliant on services for its economic well-being. There is next to zero industry. The education here is HORRIBLE. Arizona ranks dead last--50th--among the 50 states in SAT/ACT scores, spending per pupil and graduation rates. And dont even get me started on the foreclosure mess; and its a mess! And dont forget, we laso have to most kidnappings of any US city, bad pollution, illegals on every block and very bad air. In many many ways Michigan and metro Detroit are better than Pheonix. Way better! Michigan isnt all bad by any means. for Dont believe all the hype about the warm desert sunshine Eden of Arizona. Its a lie. Its the worst place I've ever lived.

Originally, Phoenix was #1 on my list of places I wanted to move to. I loved the fact that you can take a short drive to Camelback Mountain and spend a couple hours hiking, and the cost of living seems comparable to Metro Detroit. Certainly, the scenery is beautiful. But, like you said, when I looked at the things important to the daily grind, I felt that Metro Detroit had the advantage. I never felt safer in Phoenix than Metro Detroit. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't feel like Phoenix had more bustling streets than Detroit.

You also put into words something that I had a bad feeling about, but never thought through completely. It seemed that the Phoenix economy was not very solid. I couldn't figure out what made it viable, other than the scenery.

Detroit is, for the most part, a one industry town. But that industry has left us with a solid foundation full of assets and infrastructure that are important to bringing in new businesses. If Phoenix went through what Detroit is going through, I think it would fare much worse.

I left feeling that the two were very similar in many ways, but that Metro Detroit had better schools, and was much more family oriented than Phoenix.

[mogo]

Originally Posted by krock1dk

If mountains, sunshine, warmth and oceans make for a good quality of life, then why is California so bad off??? Those things are nice but mean nothing to me. They dont pay the bills, give you a good job, put food on the table and a roof over your head. When I look at a state, I focus on more important things: education, taxes, job growth and cost of living, and basically something that makes it a great place to raise a family. Heck with California and Florida!

I don't think you could make my point any more simple than this.

The two worst place I visited were the Los Angeles area and Miami. Fun for vacations, but I would go crazy if I had to live there. Four times the cost of living, with awful schools, horrible traffic and unfriendly people.

I'll pass on these two and stay in Detroit.