Can someone please tell me... (Detroit, Livonia: neighborhoods, high school, gated)

[khfar]

what the big deal is about "Chaldeans" (sp)? Since we're moving to W. Bloomfield, people keep telling us about them. I don't get it. I mean, we live in a very urban area of Dallas. We have all sorts of races here. We're used to it.

So...why the big deal?

[and the]

Chaldeans are Catholics from Iraq. They don't consider themselves "Arab" and they speak Aramaic...in Iraq anyway....They mostly speak "American" here. There are a lot of Chaldeans in the food business, ie. small and large independant grocery stores, liquor stores, etc. They've been around southeast Michigan for a long time and largely dominated the small independant market and liquor store business since I was a kid....At least for the past 30 years or so.

There used to be a lot of Chaldeans in the 7 Mile/Woodward Area of Detroit, and as they became more successful, they moved to suburbs like Oak Park, Southfield and eventually West Bloomfield, Bloomfield Hills, etc....

I don't have a problem with "Chaldeans" in general. As far as a stereotype, they're hardworking good people to a larger extent than other groups that you're likely to encounter in the Detroit metro area....Stereotypically speaking.....I'm not Chaldean, but I've dated a few....

[nickbii]

Originally Posted by khfar

what the big deal is about "Chaldeans" (sp)? Since we're moving to W. Bloomfield, people keep telling us about them. I don't get it. I mean, we live in a very urban area of Dallas. We have all sorts of races here. We're used to it.

So...why the big deal?

They're high profile because they're Iraqi. Most of them have fled to the US from Iraq.

In this area they were prominent before that, because they're the inner-city grocers. Our black community has no problem with Koreans, but they get worked up about Chaldeans cut-throat business practices.

Nick

[RedWingsFan]

Actually they were high profile long before the whole Iraq situation came about. I remember 20 years ago when I was in high school in the Detroit area that Chaldean relations were an issue/topic. Why is it a topic? From what I have experienced they tend to have attitudes toward white Americans, possibly because they are always being characterized as Arab instead of Chaldean.

Read this information, it will give a great insight into it all:
Chaldean Americans

What you have to keep in mind about the Detroit area is that it's the most segragated major city in the country. While 80 percent of Detroit is black, 80 percent up to 100 percent of surrounding suburban cities are white or white with other minority races mixed in (and that's the way generations of people want to keep it). It's a city that notices race/ethnicity. Therefore this info would be pointed out to you. Just take them warning you about Chaldean's and change the word "Chaldean" with any other race like "black, hispanic, asian, etc.". If there were a lot of any one minority group living in a suburb you were moving to people would warn you in the entire Detroit area. Comes from generations of race relation problems in the area. You should do some research online about Detroit and the suburbs and the race riots and the "white flight."


This is a great segment to explain that:
Broken Detroit: Death of a city block

While you may be "used to it" in Texas, you will not find the same open attitudes in the Detroit area. It's the history of the area... read up on it so you are aware of what's going on and how it got that way.

West Bloomfield is very nice, you shouldn't have problems there. But don't go to the Detroit area expecting it to be like the Houston area (especially when it comes to race relations), because it's not the same and you'll be highly disapointed. It's been that way for decades (I know the stories even back from my great grandparents) and it's not going to change anytime soon.

[cardwellave]

Geez, you make it sound like the deep south. It's really not.

[nickbii]

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

Actually they were high profile long before the whole Iraq situation came about. I remember 20 years ago when I was in high school in the Detroit area that Chaldean relations were an issue/topic. Why is it a topic? From what I have experienced they tend to have attitudes toward white Americans, possibly because they are always being characterized as Arab instead of Chaldean.

You're right about their profile within the area, they're as high-profile as Poles are in the area. But guys from Dallas don't hear about our Polish community; presumably because the Poland is a lot less screwed up than Iraq.

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

What you have to keep in mind about the Detroit area is that it's the most segragated major city in the country. While 80 percent of Detroit is black, 80 percent up to 100 percent of surrounding suburban cities are white or white with other minority races mixed in (and that's the way generations of people want to keep it).

In the 1990 census Detroit was the blackest city in the nation and two blocks away Livonia was the whitest. In 2000 this changed because Livonia shrank, so it the census bureau did not call it a "city" in their report.

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

While you may be "used to it" in Texas, you will not find the same open attitudes in the Detroit area. It's the history of the area... read up on it so you are aware of what's going on and how it got that way.

Look at it this way:

In Texas every segregationist was forced to publicly change his mind or give up his political career. In Detroit nobody changed his mind. The whites all say "See, you took over and the city went to hell," and the blacks respond with "No, you couldn't handle listening to a black man so you ran away."

Fortunately most young people think the whole damn debate is stupid. At this point we got to stop arguing about who was the ******* in 1970 and start figuring out how to clean up the mess.

Unfortunately old people vote more than young; so the discourse is dominated by guys who can't get over the riots.

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

West Bloomfield is very nice, you shouldn't have problems there. But don't go to the Detroit area expecting it to be like the Houston area (especially when it comes to race relations), because it's not the same and you'll be highly disapointed. It's been that way for decades (I know the stories even back from my great grandparents) and it's not going to change anytime soon.

I doubt Houston is an idyllic paradise when it comes to race relations.

There's definitely a difference in public discourse, tho -- in Southeast Michigan cities are tiny. Detroit proper is only 1/5 the population of the area. Since Detroit-proper's fifth is what was left when people (mostly whites) fled the city, the surrounding governments are dominated by folks who fled the city (again, mostly whites). Note that many of these cities are basically neighborhoods with Mayors.

That means instead of having 1 super-Mayor who cares what most people think we have dozens and dozens of little mine-Mayors who care what their little box thinks; and so pull no punches when talking about everyone-else's little box. Since Detroit-proper is the biggest box, and most of the little cities have a population that fled Detroit-p[roper we spend almost all our time saying nasty things about each-other.

Nick

[RedWingsFan]

Originally Posted by cardwellave

Geez, you make it sound like the deep south. It's really not.

I'm just telling it like it is and being brutally honest in doing so. I was born and raised there, as was my mom, my grandmother, etc. My family history goes back generations in the Detroit area.

[khfar]

But don't go to the Detroit area expecting it to be like the Houston area (especially when it comes to race relations), because it's not the same and you'll be highly disapointed.

I hate to say it, but Houston can be quite racist, too. Dallas, too. I live in the city, and my friends that live in the suburbs won't even come over to visit. And I live in a nice area! But if they see one black person (GOD forbid), they get all freaked out. It totally pisses me off.

I went into Detroit the last two times I visited. Yes, it is different from the downtown areas of Dallas and Houston, but I wasn't as scared as people told me I would be. I think it is because, as I stated, I have never lived in a suburban area. I've grown up in the middle of Dallas. I'm used to different races, and I LIKE seeing diversity. It's something I'm going to miss, living in W. Bloomfield!

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by khfar

I hate to say it, but Houston can be quite racist, too. Dallas, too. I live in the city, and my friends that live in the suburbs won't even come over to visit. And I live in a nice area! But if they see one black person (GOD forbid), they get all freaked out. It totally pisses me off.

I went into Detroit the last two times I visited. Yes, it is different from the downtown areas of Dallas and Houston, but I wasn't as scared as people told me I would be. I think it is because, as I stated, I have never lived in a suburban area. I've grown up in the middle of Dallas. I'm used to different races, and I LIKE seeing diversity. It's something I'm going to miss, living in W. Bloomfield!

Yeah, you'll definately miss it here. I just moved here from Southern California last year, and aside from the economy the biggest thing we hate here is the racial divide. We are still shocked by it.

[RedWingsFan]

But you have to remember that we people from Michigan like that racial divide, that's why it's been around so long. I don't want to sound mean, but you guys talk about it as if people in the area are just victims of it. Most people I know (family and friends) from Michigan (they all live in Detroit area) like the racial divide. Most of my family won't step foot in the city of Detroit because it's mainly a black city. You get used to what you are brought up around. If you have any little kids you will be raising them in a racially segregated area and they will likely end up growing up to think that way as well (as did I, my mom, my grandparents, etc.). It's a way of life that I can't see changing there very quickly because most people like it that way.