16 Mile? (Detroit, Ann Arbor, Livonia: for sale, real estate, maintenance)

[jeffncandace]

Children! Keep it above the belt please!

[Guardian]

Originally Posted by and the

Here's a crime index for the Corktown area:

Crime
The following values are represented as an index, where the value 100 represents the national average.
Crime Risk 333Personal Crime Risk 464Murder Risk 872Rape Risk 419Robbery Risk 375Assault Risk 286Property Crime Risk 258Burglary Risk 258Larceny Risk 103Automotive Theft Risk 507

Could you please provide a link to where you found this.

[and the]

Detroit Corktown Demographics - Neighborhood Demographics

Zoom way in on 48208 and check out the real Tiger Stadium.....What a shame....

[jeffncandace]

You guys are looking for the "Why can't Michigan turn it around?" thread. This thread is asking if you believe it is dangerous to "go below 16 Mile", or at the very least, to live below 16 Mile.

[reconmark]

People can always look at data to support their point of view, be it good or bad.
Some people say, "Hey, just look at the stats" and that tells it all. NO, it dosen't. As I've said before, you have pockets of area in the city that will account for much of the crime that people try to paint over the entire city. If you took those pockets out of the statistics and averaged in the remaining size of the city and then compared those stats with any other general area of se mi you may get a whole new set of numbers.
Why would anyone take the city of detroit and compare it with a city one tenth the size of Detroit, if you want to do that compare it with an area of Detroit that is nice versus an area that you know is not so nice.
We could have scenarios like this forever and it would really prove nothing.
Ask how many times a home in my neighborhood has been burglarized, how many shot, stabbed, assaulted, etc. The answer is zero. How many times have I been a victim or a family member. zero.
The fact is that some people will see ONLY the bad, bad people, bad areas, bad city.
Let put it into real perspective, the city could virtually keep the same crime stats, but if the Mayor were white, Chief of police, Water Dept, Sanitation, were all white and the population were statistically greater in favor of whites how many of you would not have such a harsh view of the city.
That's not to say ALL people would move or stay in the city based on race or stats but the mentality would be different.
Untill we start to look at people and areas along with the stats then we will always have these sorts of situations where we shout at one another across the great divide of eight mile, sixteen mile, twenty three mile, etc. Untill some people are one this board talking about,it's only safe if you live in a houseboat like mine in the middle of lake michigan north or lake Huron.
I believe some of the view points are racist and others I believe are not inherently racist just view points that are shaded by those of others and those whom have had some bad experiences with people different from themselves.
But I must also say that crime does exist in the city, more in some areas less in others, but I believe this to be the same for ANY major Metro area in the country.
What makes OUR situation here in se mi so convoluted, polarized, and at times seem unsolvable.

[and the]

Let put it into real perspective, the city could virtually keep the same crime stats, but if the Mayor were white, Chief of police, Water Dept, Sanitation, were all white and the population were statistically greater in favor of whites how many of you would not have such a harsh view of the city.

I'd rather live downtown than in Taylor or Romulus......They're white aren't they?????

If the Detroit Public School board was all white with the same stats as they have now, my opinion would be no better or worse than it is now. And as the schools go, so goes the rest of the city...or vice versa, but you get the idea. Same with Kwami. I don't think my opinion of him would be any higher if he were a third generation Italian Catholic. As far as the crime goes, of the times I've found out who victimized me while living in Detroit, the majority of the times it was white guys, either parolees or crackheads. That didn't influence my opinion one way or the other. A thief is a thief.

I don't know what you consider your neighborhood to be as far as a radius, but I'm pretty sure there have been homicides, robberies and burglaries within a half-mile radius if you live around Mumford.

The crime index I posted goes by zip codes. A zip code isn't THAT big of an area geographically. I'm pretty sure they got their numbers from the FBI's UCR too. That breaks it down to census tract. If you really wanted to be objective, you could break it down that way. A census tract is definately not any bigger than what most people would conisider to be a "neighborhood". That's what I tried to do, but I couldn't find a link quick enough.

Come on recon, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. When you compare the Corktown numbers with a middle of the road neighborhood in Livonia and get THESE kinds of numbers:
Livonia Francavilla Demographics - Neighborhood Demographics

I think it would be pretty darn reasonable to infer that you have a LOT better chance of being robbed or burglarized in Corktown. In addition, I KNOW there are burglaries and robberies in Livonia too, so it's not like you're comparing Corktown to an area with NO crime. Does that mean Corktown in totally unsafe? I don't think so. Does the fact that most Corktown residents haven't been robbed at gunpoint make Corktown a "safe" neighborhood as compared to Livonia? No way, not if you're being objective about it. It may be "safe" compared to Dexter and Puritan, but that ain't saying much. It sure isn't anywhere near as safe as Puritan and Merriman.

But....to keep on track....If the question is "is it safe south of 16 Mile?? Sure it is, but if you're going as far south as Michigan Avenue, it's a lot LESS safe...

[reconmark]

To "and the"
What I'm saying is take palmer woods, not the zip code for that area, just palmer woods. Find another city the size of that and compare the stats, the stats won't show feverish looting, raping, etc.
Do this with Indian Village, East Village, East Jefferson east of Belle Isle from jefferson to the river, etc.
You will get low numbers, now take Mack and Bewick and watch the numbers fly.
All I'm saying is in a city this size you have to know where the people who think and act like you live and where those who don't live and you will have saved yourself from 85% of the crime you read about.
It isn't based on race it's based on shared values, some people have more values and/or morals than others.

[and the]

To "and the"
What I'm saying is take palmer woods, not the zip code for that area, just palmer woods. Find another city the size of that and compare the stats, the stats won't show feverish looting, raping, etc.

I don't think anyone is saying you can't find a secure neighborhood in Detroit if you don't mind spending a half million or more and $20,000.00 per year in property tax....Plus the monthly fee for the private security, plus the tuition to send your kid to U of D high school, etc.....Kids who live in Palmer Woods generally don't go to Mumford....After all, we're all speaking relatively here. There is crime everywhere. What is considered safe relative to Detroit would never fly in the Pointes.
REALTOR.com: Find a Home - Listing Detail

I'd rather compare more apples to apples. How about a neighborhood with $150,000.00 houses in Detroit against a neighborhood with $150,000.00 houses in Livonia. Comparing an area established by rich tycoons and still mostly populated by white collar people or people who don't even have to work with a blue collar area in the suburbs is hardly an objective comparison. How about this area:
REALTOR.com: Find a Home - Listing Detail

Vs. this one sorta by your area? Both 3 BR 2 bath ranches for $150,000.00:
REALTOR.com: Find a Home - Listing Detail

[jeffncandace]

I think you are both making some very valid points. Just wanted to pipe in and commend you both for keeping it civil!

[Angel Bear]

All things are relative, IMHO. What one person considers 'safe' or 'nice' as a place to live will be different from another's. Different people enjoy living in different types of areas. Some prefer to live in a city, whereas some enjoy a rural or suburban setting. It's all good

Each person has their own personal truths. Each person will interpret the statistics differently. Also, I believe that my thoughts create my experiences, so I rarely encounter "unsafe" situations. I use common sense and honor my own inner guidances about situations.

I take out my sociology and criminology books from college now and then for refreshers LOL. Crime is everywhere, but the types of crime vary according to region, along with many other factors. America is ever-changing as far as its racial and culutural make-up. So, every aspect of living in our country, inlcuding Michigan is ever-changing.

For me, I like to live where I feel the best. Where do I have the most energy and vitality? Where are there places that make my heart sing? What makes me feel alive? For me, I enjoy living near the ocean and with a surfing/extreme sports culture with warm, sunny weather...So, my heart is leading me to live in Southern California. That is what fits me the best. It's not better or worse than anyone else's perfect fit--it's just different.

I also must say that I really disagree with the idea that racism will always be around. Racism is just a belief or behavior--both can be changed. With new generations having children, it will be less and less common. I see the planet evolving into a new consciousness of love, tolerance, and peace. Hate and intolerance and violence are so yesterday...they are on their way out.

I spend 50 percent of my time south of 16 mile, going to Royal Oak, Detroit, Ferndale, meeting with family and friends, going to sporting events, etc. We just live near 19 Mile because it is a closer commute for my husband's job. Where you live is a complex decision...There are many factors obviously.