16 Mile? (Detroit, Pontiac, Royal Oak: houses, rent, work)

[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

No, not every area that has blacks is conceived as being bad or crime ridden. There are some blacks that can afford to live in the good areas. But places that have a high percentage of black residents are perceived as being undesirable or crime ridden to most white people in the metro area.

You have to understand the history of the city of Detroit and the metro area to really understand where our mindset came from and how it's passed down generation to generation. I was raised hearing the stories of how Detroit was beautiful and as minorities moved in it went downhill and the whites had to flee for the suburbs.

I really don't think people that aren't native of the area or have been there for a long time will ever really understand the complex dynamics of the metro area. But those of us that were raised there know it very well and much to the disapointment to outsiders we actually like it. I will teach it to my kids as it was taught to me and my mother and so on.

And about Pontiac... like I said, there are exceptions to all things. People know to stay clear of Pontiac, it's a given. And some people do move out far, very far and even up north, even out of the state. You just have to learn the dynamics of it to really understand it.

You know what the interesting part about this mentality is? It wasn't too long ago that British-Americans had the same mentality in Philadelphia. Why did people flee Society Hill and environs in the 19th century? B/c those d@mn Irish and Italians were moving in bringing crime and poverty, lol. Now two centuries later, these very same "miscreants" are the ones trying to kick down the ladder as various "undesirables" try to climb up based on their merit and achievements - same ole story for generations. The good news is that history has shown that you can only "block the ladder" of opportunity for so long b/c Americans are pragmatists when it comes down to it. For instance, there are less and less whites going to med school with each coming year, so eventually, everyone will have to be treated by an "undesirable" at one time or another or simply die on the table waiting for a white person to treat them, lol.

[jeffncandace]

Ah, love the history lesson Cato. Your right about Americans: we will find another way up the ladder if your blocking the way. I myself am part Irish...maybe that's why I commiserate with the "Irish" of this century, the blacks! lol

It's my opinion that in 50 years or so, most of America will be mulatto anyway (like my neice), so none of it really matters.

[RedWingsFan]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

Well, of course I agree with Cato. I think you hit it square on the head: it's really about race, but it's just too hard to come out and say that. .

No, it's not hard to say it. The Detroit area is one of the most racially segregated metro areas in the country. It is about race. No doubt. I even studied the changes of Detroit in my college sociology classes.

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

Your opinion is obviously one that is a lifetime in the making, but it doesn't make it necassarily correct. For your personal preference, sure, but not for all.

I would say the same goes for your thoughts and beliefs. It's just the same...

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

It's my opinion that in 50 years or so, most of America will be mulatto anyway (like my neice), so none of it really matters.

I would be willing to bet the Detroit metro area won't all be mulatto!

Look folks, you can not like what I'm saying, you can not agree with what I'm saying, but I'm explaining to you the mentality of most people that live in the northern Detroit suburbs, especially for those that are older. You wanted to know and I told you.

You can try to give me as many lessons as you'd like but they will mean nothing. I know how I was raised and I how I will raise my kids. We are all free to do as we like. But even if you guys move away there will be some other fresh newcomers come in from somewhere that will be on a high mission to change the mentality of the people because while they preach tolerance they are only tolerant of those that happen to agree with their views.

[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

You can try to give me as many lessons as you'd like but they will mean nothing. I know how I was raised and I how I will raise my kids. We are all free to do as we like. But even if you guys move away there will be some other fresh newcomers come in from somewhere that will be on a high mission to change the mentality of the people because while they preach tolerance they are only tolerant of those that happen to agree with their views.

Ah, but what if more people like us come in and people like you move away? Isn't that exactly what you've done? In fact, I think that's the very thing that's happening in places like Royal Oak, but you just haven't noticed or choose to look the other way. It's called progress and the 21st century, my friend. Metro Detroit cannot remain in the the 50s forever; your worldview is dying as we speak along with the auto industry - R.I.P. Let people fire their salvos as parting shots as their way of life dies - their emigration along with their mentality's is a net gain in Metro Detroit (addition by subtraction), as far as I'm concerned, and Las Vegas', Phoenix's, Charlotte's, Jacksonville's ,etc.'s loss.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

You can try to give me as many lessons as you'd like but they will mean nothing. I know how I was raised and I how I will raise my kids. We are all free to do as we like. But even if you guys move away there will be some other fresh newcomers come in from somewhere that will be on a high mission to change the mentality of the people because while they preach tolerance they are only tolerant of those that happen to agree with their views.

I'm not trying to teach any lessons (although if I thought it would do any good I would love to), I'm simply trying to say that your opinion of anything south of 16 simply doesn't jive with my personal experience. Like I posted elsewhere, you can't tell me not to believe my own eyes and ears. I will not reject reality and substitute it with your opinion. I am a fresh set of eyes to this area and I see it for what it is, not what I have been told I should see it as.

I say all those of like mind who keep running further north should keep running. You're right-I AM intolerant of of intolerance, especially when it's based on racism handed down from Grandma.

[RedWingsFan]

Like I said, you can not like it but it wont change. I take comfort in that as do many many others in the Detroit area. It's the reality of the area. And grandma is wise, very wise! I will certainly pass that info down, along with what I've learned from my own experiences.

[BurtsBees]

16 mile?

Im in Fraser, and the crime here is lower than alot of cities north of 16.
Moderator cut: linking to competitors sites is not allowed

It certainly depends on the area though. Ferndale is safer than Eastpointe, Royal Oak is safer than Roseville. Eastpointe sits on 8 mile, ends at 10 mile, where Roseville picks up.

Call it what you want guys - racism, communism, buddhism, crapism, who cares. Unfortunately what RedWingsFan is saying is true for the most part. The spread from Detroit is making its way north into the suburbs, and yes crime IS going up and yes DECAY is going up as well. I'm going into law enforcement, and I know MANY cops. Ive done ride alongs, etc, and the cops all say the same thing. Its unfortunate for those who are fleeing the problem and want to be part of the solution because yes they are grouped in with them. I dont want to insult anyone but you are BLIND if you cant see this happening. A black family moved into my neighborhood about a month ago. They keep the house up better than the ones before and are calm, collective people. Do I have a problem with that? No! Problem is, they are a small percentage in this area.

Those coming from Detroit bring the mentality that even a black co-worker from the SOUTH said she doesnt understand. The Detroit mentality is that they must live off welfare, not clean or fix anything up, and that they all want to live being poor. She even said that when she moved here THIS year, in 2007, her neighbors told her NOT to cross 8 mile because the white man will bring her down! It sits on both sides of the fence and the history is there and still exists. Im all for equality and diversity but if the Detroiters want to move here and trash things up, then thats where the problem starts. Move in, keep things nice and clean like everyone SHOULD be doing, then theres no problem.

[Cato the Elder]

Okay, I'll play the devil's advocate here, and for background, I'm not black. What about the white redneck who moves in from the hinterland and parks his beatup pickup truck in his backyard on cinderblocks? Why is it always the "black person bringing decay from the city?" Heck, I'll give you some addresses. Go to Bird Street in Birmingham, one block north of 14 Mile. There's a red house with a redneck (aptly enough) who moved in several years ago. He's been cited again and again for his pickup truck as described above, yet he won't do a thing. Why isn't this held up as a standard of the depravity of white people as quickly as the gangbanger moving in from the city? Now go a couple blocks north of this adjacent to the alley street paralleling Woodward on the west side. There's another redneck there with the same ole pickup truck in the backyard getting swallowed up in his overgrown lawn along with his abandoned washer and dryer - all in plain view of Woodward Ave. All of this in a neighborhood of $500k+ houses. The black people I've met in Birmingham are model citizens ala the Huxtables. But let me guess, these are all anamolies. But could it BE that despite percentages (largely due to decades of a stacked deck) that perceptions get exaggerated (in the case of blacks) and downplayed (in the case of whites)? My opinion is yes - that's what minorities have rightfully been fighting for during the past decades - a chance at a level playing field without preconceived stereotypes, despite shortcomings we ALL have as people. Whether you believe it or not, perceived majority groups have always been given the benefit of doubt where minorities have not. In the end, it's not where you're at, but where you've gone, IMHO.

[RedWingsFan]

Originally Posted by BurtsBees

Call it what you want guys - racism, communism, buddhism, crapism, who cares. Unfortunately what RedWingsFan is saying is true for the most part. The spread from Detroit is making its way north into the suburbs, and yes crime IS going up and yes DECAY is going up as well. I'm going into law enforcement, and I know MANY cops. Ive done ride alongs, etc, and the cops all say the same thing. Its unfortunate for those who are fleeing the problem and want to be part of the solution because yes they are grouped in with them. I dont want to insult anyone but you are BLIND if you cant see this happening. A black family moved into my neighborhood about a month ago. They keep the house up better than the ones before and are calm, collective people. Do I have a problem with that? No! Problem is, they are a small percentage in this area.

Those coming from Detroit bring the mentality that even a black co-worker from the SOUTH said she doesnt understand. The Detroit mentality is that they must live off welfare, not clean or fix anything up, and that they all want to live being poor. She even said that when she moved here THIS year, in 2007, her neighbors told her NOT to cross 8 mile because the white man will bring her down! It sits on both sides of the fence and the history is there and still exists. Im all for equality and diversity but if the Detroiters want to move here and trash things up, then thats where the problem starts. Move in, keep things nice and clean like everyone SHOULD be doing, then theres no problem.

Thank you, someone who sees it like it is and is not afraid to be politically incorrect in discussing it. It's the reality in the Metro Detroit area and it does go both ways (blacks don't want to go to the northern suburbs either).

[RedWingsFan]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Okay, I'll play the devil's advocate here, and for background, I'm not black. What about the white redneck who moves in from the hinterland and parks his beatup pickup truck in his backyard on cinderblocks? .

We have already said there are exceptions on both sides. But we are speaking about the majority, not the few on either side that do certain things, be it live like the Huxtables or live like a redneck.