16 Mile? (Detroit, Royal Oak, Auburn Hills: work, sick, home)

[BurtsBees]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Okay, I'll play the devil's advocate here, and for background, I'm not black. What about the white redneck who moves in from the hinterland and parks his beatup pickup truck in his backyard on cinderblocks? Why is it always the "black person bringing decay from the city?" Heck, I'll give you some addresses. Go to Bird Street in Birmingham, one block north of 14 Mile. There's a red house with a redneck (aptly enough) who moved in several years ago. He's been cited again and again for his pickup truck as described above, yet he won't do a thing. Why isn't this held up as a standard of the depravity of white people as quickly as the gangbanger moving in from the city? Now go a couple blocks north of this adjacent to the alley street paralleling Woodward on the west side. There's another redneck there with the same ole pickup truck in the backyard getting swallowed up in his overgrown lawn along with his abandoned washer and dryer - all in plain view of Woodward Ave. All of this in a neighborhood of $500k+ houses. The black people I've met in Birmingham are model citizens ala the Huxtables. But let me guess, these are all anamolies. But could it BE that despite percentages (largely due to decades of a stacked deck) that perceptions get exaggerated (in the case of blacks) and downplayed (in the case of whites)? My opinion is yes - that's what minorities have rightfully been fighting for during the past decades - a chance at a level playing field without preconceived stereotypes, despite shortcomings we ALL have as people. Whether you believe it or not, perceived majority groups have always been given the benefit of doubt where minorities have not. In the end, it's not where you're at, but where you've gone, IMHO.

You know what, Ill agree with you on this one. The majority groups HAVE been given the benefit of the doubt over minorities and thats because of where you grew up and what you've learned/seen/been taught. And I'll admit, most of the population does that. I have no problem giving ANYONE a fair shot. One black gentlemen I met through work was by far the most inspiring, uplifting person I ever met. There is a natural tendency for those to want to stick to their own, and anyone who is different they'll look at them differently. Its hard for me to type what Im trying to say without looking like an ass Those who are white in the suburbs see the following things happening - increase in crime, increase in decay and also more blacks moving in. People look at the effect and then look for the source of the problem, and to look for the source of the problem they look at what HAS changed. Unfortunately the slums of Detroit are moving into the suburbs, ruining it for the good ones that the people WANT to keep there. Its not easy for me to put into perspective because I dont to sound like a racist chum, I just want to state my observations. Ill get along with everyone unless they give me a reason not to.

[5kingsinvegas]

I grew up in Howell, MI which is in Livingston County. My dad grew up in Detroit at 7mile and Livernois. I remember going to visit my grandparents in Detroit and even as a child I noticed the steady decline of the city. Howell was the home of Robert Miles, a Grand Dragon for the KKK. I remember our little theater being trashed when the movie Purple Rain was playing there. I also remember a few cross burnings on the front lawns of the few minorities who dared to try to make Howell their home. I grew up in an extremely racist home, but I didn't realize it until I went to college. It was just the way it was. I remember having a crush on a Caldean boy in highschool and my dad telling me that if I dated him I would have to find somewhere else to live. Livingston county is slowly losing its KKK image and as more and more people move in it is becoming a little less white. My husband and 3 children and I recently moved to Las Vegas. I have to say it has been the best thing for my children. I notice that when my children are trying to describe someone to me they never mention the color of their skin....I will say things like "you mean the little black girl over there?"... they will describe the same child as having black curly hair and brown eyes with a pink shirt. Even though as an adult I realize that I was raised in a very racist home I am not sure that I would not have repeated the pattern if I had stayed in Michigan. It is not until you leave Michigan and experience other more diverse areas that you realize how segregated Michigan is. My brother lives in Traverse City and when we visited him recently all I noticed was how "white" it is. Funny how I never noticed it before. Right or wrong, it is how most of Michigan is.....

[RedWingsFan]

Originally Posted by BurtsBees

There is a natural tendency for those to want to stick to their own, and anyone who is different they'll look at them differently. Its hard for me to type what Im trying to say without looking like an ass Those who are white in the suburbs see the following things happening - increase in crime, increase in decay and also more blacks moving in. People look at the effect and then look for the source of the problem, and to look for the source of the problem they look at what HAS changed. Unfortunately the slums of Detroit are moving into the suburbs, ruining it for the good ones that the people WANT to keep there. .

This is so correct!

People do have a tendency to want to stick to their own kind. But a lot of people want people to feel bad for that. But not all people, they just hate it when whites want to stick with whites. I see on these message boards all the time people looking for areas of a city that are Asian, black, hispanic, etc. And people don't call them racist for not wanting the white areas. It seems it's only a problem when whites want to live around white people.

I've posted this link before in other areas of the boards, but it's interesting. It's the psychology of stereotypes. This research says that everyone stereotypes, even those people living in Royal Oak who think they don't.

Check it out:
ABC News: The Psychology of Stereotypes

Like I had mentioned before, there are some blacks that move to the surburbs and do well. They fit in, take care of their homes, etc. Those people aren't the ones that the general population have a problem with. It's the people that are moving further out into the suburbs and spraying graffitti, increasing crime, bringing schools down, etc. And there's more of those than the others.

[Blue Grass Fever]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

I live in Royal Oak, and find this opinion to be silly. I am starting this thread to see if this is indeed the general consensus, or instead a minority opinion. If you share the "stay above 16 Mile" opinion, I would be curious as to what personal experience has led you to that conclusion.

Discuss!

I share the "stay out of Metro-Detroit" concensus!

The metro area sucks in my humble opinion.

[Cato the Elder]

Those people aren't the ones that the general population have a problem with.

Tell us the truth. Perhaps YOU somehow were enlightened, but I would guess most people in your family would have a problem with the very existence of a black person in your neighborhood, no matter how well they took care of their yard and all that. On the flipside, would you really be all that pissed if a white guy brought his dense kids into the school district bringing down the scores? I doubt it - but that radar goes off once that black person crosses 16 Mile Road! Danger! Danger! Danger! LOL

For the record, when has anyone here decried people of the same ilk sticking together? It IS a bit ludicrous when people make such a hard, artificial boundary between white and every other ethnicity when only a century ago, the "white" category itself was divided among Irish, Italians, Catholic, etc., etc., etc.

[RedWingsFan]

5kings...

I can relate to a lot of what you said.

And I agree, a lot of people are not aware of how segregated Michigan is, especially the metro Detroit area.

I moved to Las Vegas where I stayed for 10 years. I actually hated the diversity of it. The school district there is a majority minority school district, so depending on what school your child is going to they could be the minority. They may not be describing people based on the color, but that's how others are describing him/her.

On that note, I can't see why describing one by their color is an issue. I could never understand that. It's one of the most distinguishable characterstics we have in describing someone. It should not be politically incorrect to state the color of someone's skin. I think that's just plain silly.

Let's say law enforcement is looking for a bank robber that's 5' 8"... is it okay to mention hair color? Eye color? Marks on the body? Should we leave it at that? No, it helps to know if you are looking for a white/black or brown person. It sure helps narrow it down. There are differences in who we are and it's okay to say them. People can describe me as a white woman all day long and I promise I won't be offended. At all.

Anyway, I left Las Vegas (didn't think it was a good place to raise kids and almost all my family live in Michigan and some in Florida)... but I hated how the city is over taken by hispanics, many of whom are illegals. Right now I'm in Florida but we are planning to move back to Michigan in a few months. We've decided it's time to move the kids back home to be around all the family (yes, almost all are above 16 mile, but know to avoid Pontiac).

[RedWingsFan]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Tell us the truth. Perhaps YOU somehow were enlightened, but I would guess most people in your family would have a problem with the very existence of a black person in your neighborhood, no matter how well they took care of their yard and all that.

Well, I can say this and I probably would be right in line with my family. No, I know I'd be right in line with them. We don't mind if a black family moves into the neighborhood that takes care of their home, works, etc. But... we don't want them next door to us. They need to move down the street, on a different block, etc. I don't want them next door to me, I'd be afraid their mere presence would bring down my property value.

Would I care if a dumb kid moved into the school district? Not if they didn't disrupt my child's classroom. If they did then it would become an issue.

[Cato the Elder]

Wow, this is some crazy, self-rationalized bigotry based on terribly disguised double-standards - do not know whether to feel sorry or be scared...be afraid America, very afraid... No wonder why you don't like RO and think it's changed for the worse. You must view it like the NBA - not enough white. Don't ever move to Toronto b/c it must really be going to shi^ according to your worldview. Well, good luck staying in your world near any metro area, including Detroit. When you come back to MI, I'm sure you'll be moving to 35 Mile Rd by 2010.

[TheProf]

Geez, RedWingsFan, I really hope you're engaging in some tongue 'n cheek, because if not, you are incredibly ignorant... and sad. It’s people like you why Bush, and the regressive mentality he represents, is in power.

[khfar]

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

Well, I can say this and I probably would be right in line with my family. No, I know I'd be right in line with them. We don't mind if a black family moves into the neighborhood that takes care of their home, works, etc. But... we don't want them next door to us. They need to move down the street, on a different block, etc. I don't want them next door to me, I'd be afraid their mere presence would bring down my property value.

Would I care if a dumb kid moved into the school district? Not if they didn't disrupt my child's classroom. If they did then it would become an issue.

OMG. OMG. That's all I can say here. O.M.G.