16 Mile? (Detroit, Grand Rapids, Flint: rent, lease, work)

[RedWingsFan]

Originally Posted by jeffncandace

You have never lived anywhere but here so you can't possibly know exactly how behind and ignorant you make yourself, and those you lump in with yourself, sound. .

Wrong, wrong wrong. I was born and raised there. When I was in my mid 20s my husband and I decided to move out west for a couple of years. An adventure. We moved to Las Vegas (VERY diverse). That couple of years turned into 10 years! And we lived in one of the most diverse areas of the valley, which helped fuel the racist feelings. Furthermore I worked in the school district and boy do I have some race related feelings that came from that!

Plus I've done a lot of traveling. I've been all over the country, used to do a lot of weekends in the LA area and Phoenix.

Then we moved to Florida. Now we are planning to move back home to Michigan. All the while we've been visiting home frequently as almost all our family still lives there in the suburbs. And you know what? I LONG for that lack of diversity. I want a white neighborhood, very white schools to send my kids to, etc. I miss it and that's what I want. I guess you can take a girl out of the segragated city but you can't take the segregated city out of the girl. I want to live around people like me. I don't have a problem with Hispanics wanting to live around other Hispanics, blacks wanting to live around blacks, gays wanting to live around other gays, so nobody should have a problem with me wanting to live around other whites like me.

Just as I said in the other topic, I'll bow out here. I enjoy the discussion and I think it's great to see where other people are coming from and why they think that way and how and all that. But I've seen it backfire before because people say they like to discuss it but then someone's feelings get hurt and they have a fit. So carry on with out me...

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

Wrong, wrong wrong. I was born and raised there. When I was in my mid 20s my husband and I decided to move out west for a couple of years. An adventure. We moved to Las Vegas (VERY diverse). That couple of years turned into 10 years! And we lived in one of the most diverse areas of the valley, which helped fuel the racist feelings. Furthermore I worked in the school district and boy do I have some race related feelings that came from that!

Plus I've done a lot of traveling. I've been all over the country, used to do a lot of weekends in the LA area and Phoenix.

Then we moved to Florida. Now we are planning to move back home. All the while we've been visiting home frequently as almost all our family still lives there in the suburbs. And you know what? I LONG for that lack of diversity. I want a white neighborhood, very white schools to send my kids to, etc. I miss it and that's what I want. I guess you can take a girl out of the segragated city but you can't take the segregated city out of the girl. I want to live around people like me. I don't have a problem with Hispanics wanting to live around other Hispanics, blacks wanting to live around blacks, gays wanting to live around other gays, so nobody should have a problem with me wanting to live around other whites like me.

Just as I said in the other topic, I'll bow out here. I enjoy the discussion and I think it's great to see where other people are coming from and why they think that way and how and all that. But I've seen it backfire before because people say they like to discuss it but then someone's feelings get hurt and they have a fit. So carry on with out me...

So the moral of the story would be you can take the person out of their racist enviroment, but you can't take the racism out of the person. 'Nuff said.

Now, to get back to the original thread topic...Does anyone else share the view of "Don't go below 16 Mile?" Honestly curious...

[Cato the Elder]

On a slightly different note but to make a point, my wife and I love to drive around neighborhoods like B'ham (you know, that ghetto south of 16 Mile), and Bloomfield Hills. But we KNOW that we wouldn't dare do that if we were black, because in this area, people with your mentality do indeed seem to be the majority, and we would probably have the cops called on us and pulled over in a heartbeat, asking what we are doing driving through these neighborhoods.

I'll have to slightly disagree with Jeff for once. In Birmingham and Bloomfield, it's as much if not more a socio-economic thing rather than a purely ethnic thing. If you're non-white, dressed in a suit, and driving a Benz, you will not have any trouble in these areas unless you drive by a rare white-supremicist like some on this thread. Besides, a good number of residents here are transplants from Chicago and the Coasts so they have little idea about race conflicts from 40 years ago. Yes, if you have do-rag, tons of bling, wife-beater, and loud music playing, people might keep a closer eye on you, but that's the America in general that we live in, not just Detroit. Go to Atherton, CA, Lake Forest, IL, or Rye, NY in the same getup - you'll get the same reaction. FWIW, I see plenty of non-whites walking around B'ham shopping. It's obvious that they are well-heeled for the most part and they get no trouble b/c their money is just as good as the next person. This is a big difference versus pulling over every non-white or pointing to a sign on a store wall saying "no colored people" despite the customer having money. Now if you drove out to 35 Mile Rd and run into Mr. or Mrs. White "Red-Wings-Fan" Supremicist, that's a different story.

Wrong. The city of Detroit is nationally recognized as a dump. Not the suburbs.

That's a major fallacy. You really believe that people from other states say, "Detroit is a dump, but Sterling Heights, now that's a nice place." LOL! Outside of MI, you're a "Detroiter" if you live anywhere near the city. For better or worse, Detroit is the identity of SE MI and to the international community, the entire state even (to the chagrin of those in the west I'm sure). As even places like Harrisburg and Albany have learned, the fate of a state is intimately tied to its large urban centers. You can't just move out to 35 Mile Rd, leach off the city as an economic engine while totally neglecting it, and expect your world to stay the same. But you have learned this and totally abandoned the city and state by moving to FL while bitching all the way about your white supremicist world crumbling around you. Good riddance I say...please don't bring your bigotry back to this state and stay in FL.

[dmetro]

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

I have the stay above 16 mile road mentality, as does all of my family that live in the Metro Detroit area.

Why? I'm a Michigan native. Born in Detroit, raised in Warren and know the areas well. Now I wouldn't live below 16 mile road because the schools are better north of 16 mile, the demographics are more to my liking, there's generally less crime (compare cities: Crime Rate Comparisons), you are farther away from the people of Detroit coming out to the suburbs to shop, hang out and be up to no good, there's often newer homes the further out you go, etc.

There are so many reasons. People in my family were around there growing up in Detroit. They took off as part of the white flight for the suburbs and we've all watched the decline of the city. The decline of the city is slowly spreading to the northern suburbs, especially those right on the Detroit border around 8 mile road or so. Some of the places are starting to look the same.

When I was in high school living in Warren I never thought it was a great place to be. Now I drive through there where I was from and I would never move there, it looks awful. People don't take care of their homes, crime is up, schools have gone downhill, more minorities have moved in, etc.

So most people that know the area and know it will move out further if they can afford to do so. Some people can't afford to move out further.

This is not to say that there are NO good places below 16 mile road. There will be decent pockets here and there. But I can't see why anyone would want to live within a couple of miles of such decay if they can help it.

So my personal experiences with it come from having grown up there and seeing the decline. Hearing the stories from my grandparents about the decline of the city of Detroit. From doing the research on crime statistics.

Pardon my language, but posts like these really **** me off. How Ignorant! Apparently you were not a Metro Detroiter for a very long time, because most of the suburbs in Metro Detroit are wonderful places to live. First off, some of these areas are simply older. Allen Park, Melvindale, Warren, Eastpointe, Redford, Garden City, etc. Sure, these areas aren't wealthy, but it's only because they have an older housing stock. While these areas may be slightly rougher, most of them are still reasonably clean and safe. Comparing them to Detroit isn't even realistic. And I suppose that Livonia, Canton, Grosse Pointe, Clawson, Royal Oak, Birmingham, Parts of Bloomfield, Beverly Hills, Berkley, Madison Heights and Farmington all must be "terrible" areas because they're below 16 Mile Rd . Be Real! All cities have wealthier and not-so-wealthy areas, but wealthy doesn't necissarily mean good and lower to middle income does not necessarily mean bad. Sure, I grew up in North Oakland County in beautiful Orion Township, but I have been to many older suburbs and I have felt safe. I also have many family members who live in these areas, even in*gasp* Allen Park. Truse me, their neighborhood is beautiful and it looks nothing like Detroit. Why don't you get a life and find something better to do than criticize the poorer suburbs?

[Cato the Elder]

Thanks, dmetro. There's another blow to the "everyone who's a native knows" theory.

[jeffncandace]

Well Cato, I'll bow down and say that you are right. I have indeed seen many "well-heeled" non-whites in the area and they weren't hassled, as far as I could see. My comment was just an honest perception that some people would indeed be worried about non-whites in their neighborhood.

And as someone who just moved here last year, yes, it is laughable that people from other states and cities would say "Oh, Detroit is a dump but Royal Oak is nice." Nobody outside of this area has heard of RO! It's ALL lumped together, good or bad.

[Cato the Elder]

Jeff, we are still of like minds. We don't have blinders on. We know that Metro Detroit has a long way to go in terms of its economy and race relations. These are two of its major warts and we know it.

Unfortunately, some people on here only want to focus on these issues, blow them out of proportion, and poo-poo anyone who dares to point out the good in the area. I understand for the most part - their way of life for generations is crumbling around them. I feel for them, but there comes a time when you have to kick these people off the ankles of the state so it can move on to bigger and better things. Life is cruel everywhere. If they think that moving to North Carolina will be a panacea, I feel for them. Some will honestly only succeed by moving, but I feel for those that will surely fall on their face and bi^ch when they have no one to blame but themselves. Then again, I'm sure they'll find a new target to blame in no time.

[jeffncandace]

Hear hear! We all know the issues here and get sick of being crucified if we dare point out a positive. I also feel that things are changing, they may go down before they go up, but hopefully when it DOES go up the archaeic-thinking haters will already be gone, and we can reap the benefits.

[summers19]

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

Well, I can say this and I probably would be right in line with my family. No, I know I'd be right in line with them. We don't mind if a black family moves into the neighborhood that takes care of their home, works, etc. But... we don't want them next door to us. They need to move down the street, on a different block, etc. I don't want them next door to me, I'd be afraid their mere presence would bring down my property value.

Would I care if a dumb kid moved into the school district? Not if they didn't disrupt my child's classroom. If they did then it would become an issue.

Oh my god. Did I just read this correctly? And to think I was actually toying with the idea of looking into this area of MI to move back to. Unbelievable. I think I'll keep my sights on Ann Arbor and Grand Rapids. Whew! I'm glad I live in Virginia in a middle class neighborhood where at least 1/3 are African American, 1/3 are Asian or Hispanic, and the rest are 'other'. I am 'other' and enjoy the diversity greatly. Thank god for Cato and Jeff for fighting the good fight. Keep it up, guys. All I can say is 'oh my god'.

[jeffncandace]

Originally Posted by summers19

Oh my god. Did I just read this correctly? And to think I was actually toying with the idea of looking into this area of MI to move back to. Unbelievable. I think I'll keep my sights on Ann Arbor and Grand Rapids. Whew! I'm glad I live in Virginia in a middle class neighborhood where at least 1/3 are African American, 1/3 are Asian or Hispanic, and the rest are 'other'. I am 'other' and enjoy the diversity greatly. Thank god for Cato and Jeff for fighting the good fight. Keep it up, guys. All I can say is 'oh my god'.

We're trying, and thanks! But your post is exactly what I feared! Please don't think RW has the majority opinion. He (she?) think he does, but in my experience so far, it's not the majority. It's a large percentage, but not the majority. RW seems a bit extreme...to understate a bit.