16 Mile? (Detroit, Warren, Sterling Heights: mortgage, safe area, high school)

[BurtsBees]

Originally Posted by reconmark

Please enlighten me, how are things goimg to get worse before they get better? Where is your evidence personal or otherwise that supports the statement that Detroit is the MOST dangerous city in the nation or do we just lump it in with your statement that if you venture into Detroit you will be raped and murdered.

How are they going to get worse before they get better? Michigan is losing jobs at an astounding rate. The good people are leaving, and Detroit is only getting worse. It is ranked as the 2nd most dangerous city next to St Louis (and who cares about St Louis, they never been to the D ). Growing up here, it was WELL known that you dont cross 8 mile without some form of protection, and its hard to let go of childhood things like that. Its instilled in you since birth...and talking to a black co-worker who lives in Detroit but doesnt mind being honest. He said a white boy in Detroit is a sitting target. You dont stop at red-lights in Detroit....you go through em. Im not saying these things because I feel like it, Im saying them because its what I was told growing up.

[reconmark]

To BurtsBees
Let another black person tell you some things that you may or may not be truely aware of. Much of the horror stories you heard while growing up were just that, horror stories.
Much the the crime in Detroit is pocketed in certain areas of the city and not city wide as you have been told. I live about one block south of Mumford high school, and I can truely say that you would have no problem in this area. Now, if you crossed over to certain areas bordered by fenkel and puritan then yes you may have problems, but is it because you are white not really, I don't even venture to those areas. You will always have some black people comment to you being white, but most people even in that area knows that person to be an a!!hole to most everyboby.
If I'm sitting at a light on Dexter and Chicago and someone walks around or another car gives me a bad feeling, I don't run the light due to race I run the light due to any can become a statistic in that area.
There are many whites moving into the city and you have yet to hear of some racial uprising on the news, because it isn't happening.
You can search area such as east village in detroit or even the amount of whites purchasing in the Detroit Edison areas. You will be challenged to find comparble homes like those anywhere in Mi in terms of workmanship and charactor.
Let me ask if you have also been told this one and took it as a true fact. Mayor Coleman Young told all white people to get out of town, or all white people hit Eight mile road. Sometimes get a varied viewpoint and your perceptions may change somewhat.
Young the racist? The myth wasn't reality (broken link)

[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by BurtsBees

Growing up here, it was WELL known that you dont cross 8 mile without some form of protection...He said a white boy in Detroit is a sitting target. You dont stop at red-lights in Detroit....you go through em. Im not saying these things because I feel like it, Im saying them because its what I was told growing up.

These statements are so preposterous that it's almost not worth commenting on. When were you told these things? When you were 5? Were you also told you would go blind after certain repetitive activities? Heck, why even drive a car - you might get in a terrible accident and get decapitated! You better not read books; you might get a papercut!

Yeah, you don't go driving around Detroit willy-nilly. But you can drive most streets and major thoroughfares such as Woodward, Jefferson, and Grand without any fear, especially during the day. I see plenty of white people doing it every workday, and I'm sure most aren't packing!

[and the]

I live about one block south of Mumford high school, and I can truely say that you would have no problem in this area.

Had a shooting once at the gas station on the corner of 6 Mile and Wyoming, across from Marygrove, kitty corner, I think to Green's Hamburgers. One kid walked up behind a 15 year old kid on his way to Mumford and BLAM, BLAM, BLAM, BLAM, BLAM, BLAM! 6 times in the back. What's Mumford, about a half mile from there? Not that big of a deal though, it wasn't like it was a random crime. The one 15 year old owed the other one some money.

Not long after, there was a 14 year old kid in a group home/halfway type house for juveniles. It was on that street with the nice houses behind Marygrove. The kid grabbed a ten year old boy from down the street, took him behind a house, but a knife to his throat and said "You're gonna lick my d*** 'til I bust a nut, then I'll let you go." Not a problem for the random white motorist of course.

Tom's Tavern at 7 and Wyoming was held up several times just after I left. That's a half mile North of Mumford....Not a problem for the white suburbanite if you don't hang out at Tom's....Look up the crime stats for your census tract though recon...It might scare you right into Canton!!

But recon is right...If you're walking down Desoto Street in your Birkenstoks, you might be in trouble.....

Crime is relative. If you've been living in Detroit for a long time, you get used to it. My garage was B&E'd three times. 2 of the times, I knew it was white guys who did it. The third time I don't know. Someone was about to try to kick my door in once while I was home before I caught them on my porch. Another time, someone threw a rock through my basement window to either break in, or see if I was home. And I lived in what was considered a nice part of town.

If you come from a traditionally "crime free" suburb there are very few areas of Detroit where the crime stats wouldn't shock you into staying far away. Palmer Woods and Sherwood Forest might be two decent areas as far as crime, but barely. I couldn't afford to live there considering taxes. Various high rises with secured parking might be OK, especially in the downtown area. Another decent area used to be Rosedale Park, but a friend of mine was scared away from there after a double homicide during a burglary a couple doors down from his house.

The city plays games with the stats they send to the FBI for the Uniform Crime Report too. Big time games. The numbers you read there aren't anywhere near accurate. For example: If a homicide takes place in 2005, and they clear the case in 2007 (cleared doesn't mean prosecuted, it just means "we know who did it") they count it as a 2007 homicide cleared. So theoretically, if they cleared every homicide that took place in 2007 (come on now, don't laugh, it's just a hypothetical) and also during 2007, solved half the cases from 2006, they could have a 150% clearance rate for 2007's homicides! Pretty nifty huh? I don't think we'll have to worry about it though, as I believe the current clearance rate is somewhere around 30 or 40%.

Growing up here, it was WELL known that you dont cross 8 mile without some form of protection...

He didn't mean a gun, he meant a condom. That's just good advice no matter what side of 8 Mile you're on...

[summers19]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Summers, we need more native Michiganders like you coming back. May I ask what type of business you are looking to set up? People could perhaps chime in with suggestions on where to locate.

Don't listen to those who will say that *any* business will fail in MI. I know for a fact that places like Grand Rapids are doing quite well and depending on what business you're in, Oakland County is also humming along. There are more cars and people out and about than ever going about their business. I have a friend who owns a company that deals in metals and he's fabricating more stainless steel backsplashes and whatnot than ever - he can't keep up with the demand. It took months for him to get back to us with a backsplash when he got us angle-iron in less than a week last autumn! Just because the demographic is shifting more white collar doesn't mean that there are not opportunities for businesses - it just means different types of businesses will succeed. Don't look now, but Detroit is leaving the 60s!

If you're in for at least the next several years, I'm sure you'll find some great opportunities. Good luck!

To answer Cato's question, I am interested in opening a small business...a tutoring and test preparation center for kindergarten through 12th grade. I am thinking it will do well in the Grand Rapids area, but I would like to research the Ann Arbor and Detroit areas as well.

[RedWingsFan]

I just came across this article and thought it was quite relevant to the conversation:
Police crack down on 8 Mile

I just read on the Detroit police site that there were 74,000 crimes that were REPORTED during 2005. They explained that there are even more than that because not all are reported and if someone commits two crimes at the same time (burglary and theft) only the main crime gets counted. (this info in on their site under crime statistics.

These crimes are burglaries, rapes, murders, etc. Thats about 202 violent crimes happening per DAY for one city (of what's reported), over 1400 per week and over 6000 per month. That's where it gets its image of not being safe. You can't convince me that outside of the entertainment venue areas that it's "safe" to be in Detroit. If you believe that you are seriously kidding youself and putting yourself in harms way.

Detroit is the second most dangerous city in America and used to number one for years. Arguing that the city is safe to be in (regardless of what color you are) is just plain silly. All the statistics prove otherwise. It's not a safe city. Sure, go ahead and make your way down to a baseball game, hockey game, museum, etc. But get your butt back home before late and don't take wrong turns and leave those entertainment areas. Ending up on the wrong street in that city could put your life at risk.

[Cato the Elder]

Summers, this is only an opinion, but I think a great place for a business like you described is in the Bloomfield/Birmingham area - quite a number of potential customers there with money. My mother-in-law rakes it in tutoring students from the B'ham school district (she recently retired as a 4th grade teacher in the district but has been tutoring for some time). She has more than double the requests she can handle, and these are only primary school age kids! Your business is pretty removed from the auto industry so that's good. I think Ann Arbor will have more competition and less disposable income in the community, but that's a great place to live if you can swing it. GR will also work well in the East GR/Forest Hills area, but I'm not sure how big your customer base would be. Regardless, it sounds like a great idea - good luck with it!

[BurtsBees]

Originally Posted by RedWingsFan

I just came across this article and thought it was quite relevant to the conversation:
Police crack down on 8 Mile

I just read on the Detroit police site that there were 74,000 crimes that were REPORTED during 2005. They explained that there are even more than that because not all are reported and if someone commits two crimes at the same time (burglary and theft) only the main crime gets counted. (this info in on their site under crime statistics.

These crimes are burglaries, rapes, murders, etc. Thats about 202 violent crimes happening per DAY for one city (of what's reported), over 1400 per week and over 6000 per month. That's where it gets its image of not being safe. You can't convince me that outside of the entertainment venue areas that it's "safe" to be in Detroit. If you believe that you are seriously kidding youself and putting yourself in harms way.

Detroit is the second most dangerous city in America and used to number one for years. Arguing that the city is safe to be in (regardless of what color you are) is just plain silly. All the statistics prove otherwise. It's not a safe city. Sure, go ahead and make your way down to a baseball game, hockey game, museum, etc. But get your butt back home before late and don't take wrong turns and leave those entertainment areas. Ending up on the wrong street in that city could put your life at risk.

Glad to see them doing that.

[BurtsBees]

Try reading Wikipedia some time also. Even they show the racial segregation. Its not 16 mile, but its half that

Due to the sharp racial segregation between the city of Detroit and its suburbs, probably no other telephone area code territory in the nation has a larger African-American population. Hence, a 313 phone number has become increasingly fashionable for many in the hip hop community. Residents of the city, often dubbed the 3-1-3, may pride themselves on being "real" Detroiters, a notion that was reinforced in the film 8 Mile.

[jeffncandace]

Interesting to see where this went over the weekend!

My only comment is this: all these ghost stories about not going below 8 Mile without a gun, or that the statistics reflect a bloody war-zone called Detroit, while having some merit, is just silly, generally. There are bad areas, heck, even large swaths of bad areas in Detroit, but to make statements like
"get your butt back home before late and don't take wrong turns and leave those entertainment areas" is laughable. There are also GOOD areas of Detroit, and having explored some of them-and made it out alive!-I can't be made to believe someone else's race and hysteria-fueled fear over my own experience.