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Old 09-16-2010, 03:47 AM
 
999 posts, read 4,073,773 times
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Quote:
and you believe that because you're not black smh
Well, let's talk about that. How old are you, how would you categorize your self when it comes to race and why do you feel that you haven't had the same opportunity for success as someone of another race. Help me understand.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
45 posts, read 83,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and the View Post
The playing field has been more than level for a long time, but you still have to play.
I'm not sure that the playing field has ever been level, but define "a long time."
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:14 AM
Status: "My eyes are rolled back so far I can see my brain." (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Here.
13,389 posts, read 11,888,030 times
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If a white suburbanite went into a black-owned business in Detroit and applied for a job, should he/she speak Ebonics?
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
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"Ebonics" is not a real language first of all. Second of all the notion that the white suburbanite who went into Detroit looking for a job at a black owned company (a VERY hypothetical situation indeed), should speak improper English to be considered for that job is kind of insulting.
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:08 AM
Status: "My eyes are rolled back so far I can see my brain." (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Here.
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My comments in red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoolcraft View Post
"Ebonics" is not a real language first of all. Well, it sounds like detroitlove would like it to be, so that black people have a language "for themselves". Second of all the notion that the white suburbanite who went into Detroit looking for a job at a black owned company (a VERY hypothetical situation indeed) ...why is this VERY hypothetical? I'm a white suburbanite and I worked two years at a black-owned Detroit business..., should speak improper English to be considered for that job is kind of insulting. Insulting to whom? If black people, who have adopted Ebonics as "their own", and who apply for jobs at a white-owned businesses are expected to speak "proper English", then why shouldn't the reverse be true? (I'm asking this rhetorically, for the benefit of detroitlove.)
Just to clarify my twisted sarcasm: I think that everyone (black and white) should attempt to speak proper English as much as possible. I realize that some blacks (and whites, also!) may speak different due to their southern heritage or lack of schooling, but the Ebonics Movement seems to have more to do with Black Power and blacks setting themselves off apart from whites. This is misguided. I've even heard of black people who are criticized by their fellow blacks because of their use of proper English.

When a black person applies for a job at a white or black owned business they should speak proper English. When a white person applies for a job at a white or black owned business, they should speak proper English. When a Spanish speaking person moves to an English speaking country, they should use proper English (as much as possible). English is "our" (black and white) language in the United States. It unites us and eliminates inequality.
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
45 posts, read 83,112 times
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I don't want to put words in detroitlove's mouth, but I think you took her statement incorrectly. "Ebonics" is code word for slang... which ALL races have their own. The fools who profess that "Ebonics" (seems like professors at some universities) is some new language blacks had to make up because they aren't able to learn proper English are silly.

Now that I think about it, you're right... I've seen and worked with many people who were suburbanites but worked for black businesses in the city.

Black people have not treated Ebonics as "their own" though... you're mistaken on that one. Ask a black person what language they speak, and they'll say English, not Ebonics. I don't think detroitlove ever said she shouldn't speak proper English at a job interview... she can correct me if I'm wrong.

Young black kids are teased about being "too proper" and "sounding white" by their peers and that is wrong. That's a smart/dumb issue though. Black people don't teach their kids Ebonics (not purposely at least). They neglect to help their kids learn English and that's the problem.
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Old 09-16-2010, 01:45 PM
 
999 posts, read 4,073,773 times
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Quote:
I'm not sure that the playing field has ever been level, but define "a long time."
Since about the time black persons scoring lower on an employment test were routinely hired over non-black persons who scored higher, or since the time that a company "diversity" became more important than hiring the most qualified person for the job. Since about the time college admissions were based on race and since about the time minority set-aside contracts favoring black-owned companies became, and remained the norm in a city that's over 80% black. I hate to use anecdotes to illustrate points, but a friend of mine owned a small business. It was a family business with maybe 3 or 4 employees, all family. An African-American person came in and asked for an application. My friend said they weren't hiring anyone and didn't anticipate hiring anyone in the near future. The ambitious young person told my friend that he "had" to hire her because he did not employ any African Americans. I think the playing field was pretty level at about that time....When someone had the audacity to tell a potential employer that he owed them a job because of their race.

How is it that you feel black persons do not have the same opportunity for success in this country as white people?
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Detroit, MI
45 posts, read 83,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and the View Post
Since about the time black persons scoring lower on an employment test were routinely hired over non-black persons who scored higher, or since the time that a company "diversity" became more important than hiring the most qualified person for the job. Since about the time college admissions were based on race and since about the time minority set-aside contracts favoring black-owned companies became, and remained the norm in a city that's over 80% black. I hate to use anecdotes to illustrate points, but a friend of mine owned a small business. It was a family business with maybe 3 or 4 employees, all family. An African-American person came in and asked for an application. My friend said they weren't hiring anyone and didn't anticipate hiring anyone in the near future. The ambitious young person told my friend that he "had" to hire her because he did not employ any African Americans. I think the playing field was pretty level at about that time....When someone had the audacity to tell a potential employer that he owed them a job because of their race.

How is it that you feel black persons do not have the same opportunity for success in this country as white people?
If Detroit is setting aside contracts favoring black-owned companies in an 80%+ black city, then do who do you think is getting considered in majority white cities? How many majority white cities are there in America?

If just 50 years ago blacks were granted the right to vote, 20 years ago the first black supreme court justice was appointed (of 2 out of 112) and the first black president was named two years ago, I'd still say we have a ways before we said "everybody's got the same opportunities."

If Sarah Palin was a fine black woman with a journalism degree, could she have become mayor of Wasilla? Governor of any state (Have there been any black female governors before)? Candidate for vice president of the United States? The opportunities are way more abundant for whites than blacks still.

Blacks are behind the eightball... they come from a history of poverty and being 2nd to the party for darn near everything... that's a legacy that's not easy to overcome in a country that's majority white. So if you think everything is even now just because of affirmative action consider that whites have been getting affirmative action their whole lives. There was a time when if you were black it didn't matter what your credentials were, you weren't going to be considered. And that still goes on today, waaaaay more than the opposite goes on here in Detroit.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:23 AM
Status: "My eyes are rolled back so far I can see my brain." (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: Here.
13,389 posts, read 11,888,030 times
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Many cities explicitly give preferential treatment to businesses located within their city, but none based on race, that I'm aware of.

African-American males were given the right to vote in 1865...145 years ago.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:42 AM
 
Location: north of Windsor, ON
1,903 posts, read 4,729,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoolcraft View Post
20 years ago the first black supreme court justice was appointed (of 2 out of 112)
What about Thurgood Marshall, nominated by Lyndon Johnson?
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