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Old 06-03-2010, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Middletown, Ohio
1,727 posts, read 2,236,027 times
Reputation: 6383

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Quote:
Originally Posted by delayed View Post
Nope, the culture is exactly what I've got a problem with. If you've got a group of Scot's feeling entitled to everything for free, with their pants down around their knees, blasting music that glorifies murder, degradation of women and selling crack, and where ever they happen to end up the crime rate in that city climbs with their population...well.. I'll harp on them just as hard. Theres actually nothing that makes me sicker than seeing a white kid in the suburbs acting like this. The culture is the problem I'm confronting, and it's perfectly capable of crossing the racial platforms. It just so happens that it's black people who embrace it so closely.
I really wish you had said 'SOME black people' in that last line, because it's relevant...

My siblings and I, and by association my wife and HER immediate family, live by and subscribe to absolutely none of the things you attribute to black culture...and what's more, we're taking great pains to show the younger, up and coming members of our families that all that sort of stupidity buys you is either a jail cell or an extended dirt nap...

And you're right about something else---it makes me sick to my stomach to see white kids (suburban or not) embrace that junk too...if you're going to emulate something about a particular ethnic group, then try the positive attributes of same...or is it too easy to be a pea-brained thug wannabe, as opposed to actually acting like you have half a brain?

Now, as far as associating higher crime rates to the proportionate amount of blacks in a given area, well, we may have to agree to disagree about that...no statistics repeated endlessly on a chat forum should be held up as gospel truth.

I've said this here on C-D time and again, and I'll repeat it now...there are a LOT of black people out here who work hard, get educated, become successful, and are NOT living in some 'culture of entitlement', glorifying violence and the degradation of women, using or dealing drugs, etc...in fact, like your insurance executive friend, they are disgusted when they encounter that stuff, and bust their butts to DISTANCE themselves from it...but the tragedy is, you and a lot of ther folks are fed this never-ending series of sound bites, chat-forum stats, tv and newspaper news stories, that just ramp up the stereotypes and cause the entirety of the black race to be painted with the same negative brush ('ewwww-they're ALL a bunch of welfare queens and deadbeat dads---I sure don't want 'em in MY neighborhood!') and thereby stifle any attempts at dialogue trying to bridge the gap...

 
Old 06-03-2010, 05:17 PM
 
53,038 posts, read 76,190,437 times
Reputation: 11715
Quote:
Originally Posted by errhuh View Post
You seem to be focused on the race rather than the poverty and culture. There are parts of Glasgow, Scotland where you'd get your head beaten in walking around in that same time frame. It's the murder capital of Western Europe (and still very white). And they do it the hard way, with fists and knives.

But I agree that white flight can't be pinned on whites alone. It took two to play and the Belle Isle race riot showed that the great migration didnt go smoothly. When my grandparents arrived in Detroit, there were only 50,000 black people, and that was a big increase from the decade before.
Can't forget the race riot of 1863: Detroit Race Riot (1863) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There were other smaller riots in Detroit over the years too. So, there is a long history there.
 
Old 06-03-2010, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Royal Oak, MI
333 posts, read 974,584 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurtsBees View Post
Wait, what? You're the one who usually talks about black thugs, yet now you come to their rescue.

Roseville is NOT an all white city anymore. It is quickly becoming more black by the day. A TON of Detroit traffic comes through everyday via the SMART BUS 560 on Gratiot, and if you pay close attention, its most of THEM who litter the Gratiot and surrounding areas. Bus stops with tipped over grocery carts, fast food bags, etc.

You're barely old enough to reach the pedals in your mom's car, quit acting as if you know the history and current status of every city in the area. Blame whitey now, go ahead.
Since when am I the one who talks about black thugs? I make references to Bloods and Crips, but in the current racial state of America, those aren't solely black gangs.

And since when was age the issue here? You don't have to be thirty years old and have a masters degree in a study nobody can pronounce to be well rounded.

For your information, I could write an in-depth account of the history of upriver communities and their effects on eachother throughout said history. The problem is that people use stereotypes from the past in order to judge a community.

Hamtramck is no longer an ethnic center. Hazel Park is no longer full of hillbillies. Royal Oak is no longer an upscale area. Macomb Township is no longer a rural wasteland. Taylor is no longer the hick backwoods. But does that say anything to anyone?

The observancy of ones surroundings is key to an educated response. If you have not observed your surroundings, a response should not be given.

You're honestly being racist and stereotypical throughout your whole post.

And while we're on the topic, my mom drives a full-size sedan and I can reach the pedals quite fine, thank you.
 
Old 06-03-2010, 11:07 PM
 
236 posts, read 479,133 times
Reputation: 155
Slum or ghetto. Black or white. We all need to become part of the solution. Get involved in your community. Detroit's economy is in the toilet and California's is teetering on the edge. If we all would act financially, morally, and ethically responsible. We would not be in this economic mess. Enough said...
 
Old 06-03-2010, 11:58 PM
 
4,803 posts, read 10,226,331 times
Reputation: 8245
Quote:
Originally Posted by errhuh View Post
You seem to be focused on the race rather than the poverty and culture. There are parts of Glasgow, Scotland where you'd get your head beaten in walking around in that same time frame. It's the murder capital of Western Europe (and still very white). And they do it the hard way, with fists and knives.
I'm sure Glasgow, Scotland may be dangerous for a European city, but it isn't really comparable to Detriot:

Glasgow had 62 murders per 1 million people.
Scottish Government: Web page currently unavailable.
Detriot had 472 murders per 1 million people
America's Most Murderous Cities - Forbes.com
 
Old 06-04-2010, 12:23 AM
 
32 posts, read 50,682 times
Reputation: 30
I wouldn't let the demographic makeup of the city tell any of you the whole story. The city is largely undesirable to blacks and whites and the ones still here are the ones who simply call this place home or just haven't found an out yet. If the city had something to offer there is little reason to believe that whites, black, whoever wouldn't move right back on in south of 8 Mile. But since it doesn't what incentive would I in safe suburbia have to move into crime filled, high tax, high insurance, blighted Detroit? None.

And to be honest I think Detroit's race relation problem is a bit overblown. The tendency for certain racial and cultural groups to migrate towards others similar to themselves is not a Detroit specific characteristic. Look at any thematic map of Chicago outlying where certain races live and you will see it mostly black on the South side, mostly Hispanic on the west, and mostly white on the North. Same with any city, even those thought of as very diverse such as a NYC, LA, etc.

I mean hell, in some parts of LA you will get shot at for being black in the wrong hood. In NYC there were minor race riots in Brooklyn in the early 90s/late 80s.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 12:35 AM
 
32 posts, read 50,682 times
Reputation: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaincatfish View Post
I really wish you had said 'SOME black people' in that last line, because it's relevant...


Now, as far as associating higher crime rates to the proportionate amount of blacks in a given area, well, we may have to agree to disagree about that...no statistics repeated endlessly on a chat forum should be held up as gospel truth.
I think a more accurate way to associate crime to a certain group is to look at both the rate of poverty and the level of education attained. Even then that does not mean poor + uneducated = criminal, but it definitely isn't Detroit + black = criminal.

The poor and uneducated are always more likely to be prone to violence and vice because they have the unfortunate habit of being exposed to it regularly.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 01:48 AM
 
53,038 posts, read 76,190,437 times
Reputation: 11715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustus Woodward View Post
I wouldn't let the demographic makeup of the city tell any of you the whole story. The city is largely undesirable to blacks and whites and the ones still here are the ones who simply call this place home or just haven't found an out yet. If the city had something to offer there is little reason to believe that whites, black, whoever wouldn't move right back on in south of 8 Mile. But since it doesn't what incentive would I in safe suburbia have to move into crime filled, high tax, high insurance, blighted Detroit? None.

And to be honest I think Detroit's race relation problem is a bit overblown. The tendency for certain racial and cultural groups to migrate towards others similar to themselves is not a Detroit specific characteristic. Look at any thematic map of Chicago outlying where certain races live and you will see it mostly black on the South side, mostly Hispanic on the west, and mostly white on the North. Same with any city, even those thought of as very diverse such as a NYC, LA, etc.

I mean hell, in some parts of LA you will get shot at for being black in the wrong hood. In NYC there were minor race riots in Brooklyn in the early 90s/late 80s.
I think the difference is the volume of that climate. Meaning, that in those other cities, it's also not uncommon for different groups to interact with each other in a civil manner without too much tension. Detroit still seems to have a strong climate of racial tension that isn't really seen in too many other places to that degree. It's history doesn't help either.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 02:03 AM
 
51 posts, read 107,416 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanhawk View Post
I'm sure Glasgow, Scotland may be dangerous for a European city, but it isn't really comparable to Detriot:

Glasgow had 62 murders per 1 million people.
Scottish Government: Web page currently unavailable.
Detriot had 472 murders per 1 million people
America's Most Murderous Cities - Forbes.com

Murder is only one metric for violent behavior. Made easier for Detroiters by the availability of guns. Due to a culture of binge drinking and knife fighting, Glasgow has become more violent than NYC and the UN labelled Scotland as the most dangerous developed nation.

Serious Assaults in Glasgow run ~30% of the Detroit rate per capita, but they do try. The violence is also spread more evenly throughout the country so that you end up with people in Scotland being 3x as likely to be assaulted as Americans.

It's mostly poor scots beating and stabbing each other.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article568214.ece

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7345538.stm

http://www.heraldscotland.com/glasgow-looks-stateside-for-ways-to-solve-gang-problems-1.893019
 
Old 06-04-2010, 06:04 PM
 
Location: north of Windsor, ON
1,903 posts, read 4,751,034 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by delayed View Post
Nope, the culture is exactly what I've got a problem with. If you've got a group of Scot's feeling entitled to everything for free, with their pants down around their knees, blasting music that glorifies murder, degradation of women and selling crack, and where ever they happen to end up the crime rate in that city climbs with their population...well.. I'll harp on them just as hard. Theres actually nothing that makes me sicker than seeing a white kid in the suburbs acting like this. The culture is the problem I'm confronting, and it's perfectly capable of crossing the racial platforms. It just so happens that it's black people who embrace it so closely.

I'm white, I occasionally wear a baseball cap backwards, I occasionally blast songs glorifying all of the above and then some, and I don't smoke dope and I go to work every day. Doing these things, for me, and lots of others like me, isn't a downward slide into a life of crime. Stuff like this may not be great for a culture and its crime rate (I do know that sagging the pants is a sign of respect for prisoners, something a culture absolutely should not do), but it's not the main problem...I'd argue that parents not giving a care about their childrens' educations is more of a contributing factor, and this is not a racial problem, more of a social problem spanning the races. In the city of Detroit I don't think enough people demand more from anything...schools, government, utilities, their children, so there's no incentive (or reason) for any of the above to deliver more. The city forces mediocrity down its citizens' throats (with tax rates among the highest in the state, no less), further inciting taxpayers to leave. Dump your trash there, drag race in the middle of the night, buy anything illegal or stolen you want on Seven Mile, there's no such thing as a red light, all these things are the problem with Detroit. Back to what I was saying earlier about the children, a lot of parents are either too busy trying to survive or too lazy to take much involvement in their childrens' educations.

As for several south Macomb County communities previously mentioned, it'll be interesting to see the Census data. Regarding trash and blight, parts of Roseville and Warren were well-blighted before the areas integrated. In Eastpointe, the black parts of town are often among the best-kept overall.
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