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Old 10-21-2011, 01:02 AM
 
30,907 posts, read 32,846,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
Generally speaking, Paleo diets suck. There's a reason that they've earned the "Paleotard" label over the last couple years. Their rationale for avoiding dairy and grains is borderline insane and not even remotely rooted in science. Regardless, it's not necessarily a bad way to eat, just restrictive in ways that aren't needed. Oh, and 95% of the Paleo hype comes from people who are into the Spartan warrior romanticism that those diets cultivate.

Unless you're lactose intolerant, I don't see a whole lot of benefit to going on this diet. If you're having health issues, best bet is to get to the doctor and figure out what's going on and then going from there.
Can you go into a little more detail? What exactly is it about the rationale being "not even remotely rooted in science"? We were meant to drink breastmilk from animals when we were adults? We'll die without severely processed foods? Which part?

I have been to a doctor. I do in fact have an autoimmune disease: Hashimoto's thyroiditis. I take medicine for it. As to the rashes and other allergic reactions, I have been getting these since I was 12. I am now 44. I've been to plenty of doctors and taken plenty of potions. I would say I've tried long enough with "going to doctors" to fix this. I respect doctors but I hardly think I'm expected to wait another 32 years before trying a simple change of diet.

I really am interested in hearing what you think about this is non-scientific/false. If you have links (scientific links), so much the better. All I'm trying to do is get well, dude. I realize I'm being brusque. To this I say: you try living like this for 30 years and how many smart-*ss answers to your attempts you answer gracefully.

(regrouping) Okay, off to read a bit more of my book, which came today.
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Old 10-21-2011, 01:32 AM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
14,561 posts, read 22,962,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Can you go into a little more detail? What exactly is it about the rationale being "not even remotely rooted in science"? We were meant to drink breastmilk from animals when we were adults? We'll die without severely processed foods? Which part?
Well think about. What's their logic for restricting the foods you can eat?

"Cavemen didn't eat it!"

Seriously, that's about the extent of it. Cordain (one of the guys who came up with this diet) pushes it as a way to treat all these ills, despite clear scientific evidence that Paleo diets either have no effect at all, or no more effect than any other healthy diet.

This is a pretty decent read on it. I can probably dig up more in depth info tomorrow, if you would like.

Why Paleo Diet Sucks

Quote:
I have been to a doctor. I do in fact have an autoimmune disease: Hashimoto's thyroiditis. I take medicine for it. As to the rashes and other allergic reactions, I have been getting these since I was 12. I am now 44. I've been to plenty of doctors and taken plenty of potions. I would say I've tried long enough with "going to doctors" to fix this. I respect doctors but I hardly think I'm expected to wait another 32 years before trying a simple change of diet.

I really am interested in hearing what you think about this is non-scientific/false. If you have links (scientific links), so much the better. All I'm trying to do is get well, dude. I realize I'm being brusque. To this I say: you try living like this for 30 years and how many smart-*ss answers to your attempts you answer gracefully.

(regrouping) Okay, off to read a bit more of my book, which came today.
I fail to see how this diet is going to solve your health issues. At best, it looks like a hail mary attempt. I don't know a whole bunch about Hashimoto's, but it doesn't look like diet has much effect on it.

Chronic thyroiditis (Hashimoto
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:26 AM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,633,620 times
Reputation: 20198
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Can you go into a little more detail? What exactly is it about the rationale being "not even remotely rooted in science"? We were meant to drink breastmilk from animals when we were adults? We'll die without severely processed foods? Which part?

I have been to a doctor. I do in fact have an autoimmune disease: Hashimoto's thyroiditis. I take medicine for it. As to the rashes and other allergic reactions, I have been getting these since I was 12. I am now 44. I've been to plenty of doctors and taken plenty of potions. I would say I've tried long enough with "going to doctors" to fix this. I respect doctors but I hardly think I'm expected to wait another 32 years before trying a simple change of diet.

I really am interested in hearing what you think about this is non-scientific/false. If you have links (scientific links), so much the better. All I'm trying to do is get well, dude. I realize I'm being brusque. To this I say: you try living like this for 30 years and how many smart-*ss answers to your attempts you answer gracefully.

(regrouping) Okay, off to read a bit more of my book, which came today.
Hashimoto's has nothing to do with your diet. Your diet won't improve Hashimoto's, and your diet can't cause or trigger Hashimoto's. It's treated with levothyroxine or dessicated thyroid extract. You take one pill daily for the rest of your life. If you take the appropriate dose, it comes with zero side effects, because all it is, is a replacement for the hormone your own thyroid is not producing correctly.

Eating meat won't make your Hashimoto's go away. Not eating meat won't make the Hashimoto's worse. Meat + Hashimoto's = pink feather duster.
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Stamford, CT
420 posts, read 1,363,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post

I fail to see how this diet is going to solve your health issues. At best, it looks like a hail mary attempt. I don't know a whole bunch about Hashimoto's, but it doesn't look like diet has much effect on it.

Chronic thyroiditis (Hashimoto

you'd be surprised how much effect diet has on auto immune diseases.

Read the Sjogren's Syndrome thread below...


Its 100% worth a try, there are only so many things you can control about your body, diet is one of the few.



I agree, dont get wrapped up in the science behind it, or the odd crowd that does infact romanticize it, but, all in all the paleo diet is really tellign you to do is only eat what you yourself would be able to farm or hunt... I dont see the harm in this at all.
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Old 10-21-2011, 09:28 AM
 
30,907 posts, read 32,846,024 times
Reputation: 26919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post



I fail to see how this diet is going to solve your health issues. At best, it looks like a hail mary attempt. I don't know a whole bunch about Hashimoto's, but it doesn't look like diet has much effect on it.

Chronic thyroiditis (Hashimoto
Because it's likely to be anti-inflammatory? You're right, you don't know much about Hashi's. Food absolutely affects it. Certain foods are best avoided (they are goiterogenic). They can and will make a hypo-T feel worse. This is the medical community's stance. I didn't have to hunt down that information on the internet. It's just science, period (look it up for more info, it's interesting).

Inflammatory foods can and will stimulate the antibodies even more (that's just science, period...nothing to do with Paleo) even if they're not goiterogenic. And inflammatory foods are their own class, so that's even more foods that are supposed to be avoided (I knew about this too before looking up Paleo, again, from my doctor). Like you, I thought it was sheer cr a p that diet could worsen a self-attacking response, so I never adjusted my diet at the time. I am embarrassed to admit that what got me thinking about "no grains" was vanity -- I wanted to drop a few pounds, didn't like calorie restriction and started Atkins.

Foods are HUGE when it comes to Hashi's (and probably when it comes to other autoimmune disorders). I already knew about the possibility of grains being inflammatory for some people. When I cut out grains, the difference was huge. Huge. It was amazing. It was also an accident -- I didn't cut out grains to help my Hashi's. I cut them out because I was trying Atkins.

However, I still have flareups and since diet change seems to be working for me, I'm trying the dairy thing too. That's very recent, though. I always thought it was a little weird that we'd drink animal breastmilk but never thought of it specifically as possibly inflammatory. I don't know what made me look into Paleo recently, but it was in among a whole bunch of research in an attempt to get well.

The "if a caveman didn't eat it" rationale as you reduce it to (have you read any books on Paleo? Just curious) certainly seems to make sense to me since grains are inflammatory, many, many people react badly to dairy (that's just a fact), and both are more recent developments when compared to our physical evolution. So what's weird about it? Was any animal meant to eat overly processed junk?

Last edited by JerZ; 10-21-2011 at 09:40 AM..
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Old 10-21-2011, 09:33 AM
 
30,907 posts, read 32,846,024 times
Reputation: 26919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highwyre237 View Post
you'd be surprised how much effect diet has on auto immune diseases.

Read the Sjogren's Syndrome thread below...


Its 100% worth a try, there are only so many things you can control about your body, diet is one of the few.



I agree, dont get wrapped up in the science behind it, or the odd crowd that does infact romanticize it, but, all in all the paleo diet is really tellign you to do is only eat what you yourself would be able to farm or hunt... I dont see the harm in this at all.
Thanks...What's the part about people romanticising? I haven't come across this yet. Who are they?
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Old 10-21-2011, 09:35 AM
 
30,907 posts, read 32,846,024 times
Reputation: 26919
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
Hashimoto's has nothing to do with your diet. Your diet won't improve Hashimoto's, and your diet can't cause or trigger Hashimoto's. It's treated with levothyroxine or dessicated thyroid extract. You take one pill daily for the rest of your life. If you take the appropriate dose, it comes with zero side effects, because all it is, is a replacement for the hormone your own thyroid is not producing correctly.

Eating meat won't make your Hashimoto's go away. Not eating meat won't make the Hashimoto's worse. Meat + Hashimoto's = pink feather duster.
Diet is huge in Hashi's. When I was DXd I was immediately told by my doctor to avoid goiterogenic foods. I was also told at the time I might need to try an elimination diet as certain autoimmune disorders can be aggravated temporarily by certain foods (I just never thought of dairy at the time, I have no idea why -- that part is new for me). This info was relayed to me first by my GP and then by my endocrinologist. I thought they were nuts.

I was DXd going on two years ago now (hard to believe it's been that long). I didn't try eliminating any foods until fairly recently. The Levo worked to get me off the couch and functioning like a real human being again (you know, work, kids, husband, house) but I still had a lot of symptoms. However, my tests were fine, although my doctors won't repeat my T3 and T4 more than once a year, just TSH (policy) so I only know the bottom line, which is: Yes, with the Levo in my body, my TSH appears at a normal level. That's not to say anything about how much I'm converting nor how effectively but that's another subject altogether.

Yes, I take Levo. Actually, I take the generic. My dose has been adjusted and re-adjusted and I don't have side effects from it.

I didn't say eating meat would or wouldn't take my Hashi's away. It is permanent. And I do eat meat. I always have. Meat has never been the issue. Nor is meat considered an issue, pro or con, among doctors who treat Hashi's.

Last edited by JerZ; 10-21-2011 at 09:48 AM..
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Old 10-21-2011, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,307 posts, read 38,666,280 times
Reputation: 7184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco55David View Post
Generally speaking, Paleo diets suck. There's a reason that they've earned the "Paleotard" label over the last couple years. Their rationale for avoiding dairy and grains is borderline insane and not even remotely rooted in science. Regardless, it's not necessarily a bad way to eat, just restrictive in ways that aren't needed. Oh, and 95% of the Paleo hype comes from people who are into the Spartan warrior romanticism that those diets cultivate.

Unless you're lactose intolerant, I don't see a whole lot of benefit to going on this diet. If you're having health issues, best bet is to get to the doctor and figure out what's going on and then going from there.
My cousin is a dietician. She made fun of me every day. She's not a "mainstream" dietician either, very hippy-dippy and accepts holistic alternatives in ways that I can't.

However, I did feel great on the diet and I think that the "big idea" for most people is to get their focus off of processed grains.
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Old 10-21-2011, 10:46 AM
 
30,907 posts, read 32,846,024 times
Reputation: 26919
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
My cousin is a dietician. She made fun of me every day. She's not a "mainstream" dietician either, very hippy-dippy and accepts holistic alternatives in ways that I can't.

However, I did feel great on the diet and I think that the "big idea" for most people is to get their focus off of processed grains.
Thank you. Oh, trust me. I've been making fun of it all along too. Even when I was doing Atkins I was thinking, "I could NEVER eat 'like a caveman'....ugh, too bad that my life 'might' be healthier overall, it wouldn't be worth it, I'd want to die!" Life without cheese and all that good dairy? I think this how most people react when we're asked to give up our grains and dairy. It's almost a visceral response. Sometimes it's even an angry one. These are our comfort foods.

So I fully understand anyone not wanting to do it, and I even understand, though I don't endorse, the putting-on-blinders mentality of not trying diet among other treatments (I still think we should start with medical) when it comes to a chronic condition. I fully get that but I'm not going to go without correcting it, either.
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Stamford, CT
420 posts, read 1,363,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ View Post
Thanks...What's the part about people romanticising? I haven't come across this yet. Who are they?
there are people who buy into the whole diet/fitness angle of paleo, and then there are people who make a bit too much out of it, and it turns into almost a religious following. They're as minimalistic as possible, run barefoot because they feel shoes werent around in paleo times, so they much be negative... things like that. I 100% condone eating as natural and organic as possible... but certain things that extreme portions of the paleo community look down on bother me.
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