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Old 05-24-2014, 07:31 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,853 posts, read 35,071,597 times
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Everybody is going to give you a different answer. My philosophy is that eating when you aren't hungry is just stupid. Your body will tell you when it wants food, listen to it.

20yrsinbranson
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:32 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,853 posts, read 35,071,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
The human body cannot use the sun as fuel. It requires food, and it requires water.
Actually, if you study the field of quantum mechanics you will discover that we do get some nutritional benefit from solar photons.

But yeah, we need the other stuff TOO. unfortunately.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:53 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,708,910 times
Reputation: 20198
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
Everybody is going to give you a different answer. My philosophy is that eating when you aren't hungry is just stupid. Your body will tell you when it wants food, listen to it.

20yrsinbranson
Sick people, depressed people, and people with certain mental disorders will not feel hungry, hardly ever. But they still need to eat. Even when they're not hungry. It isn't uncommon for someone to not even notice that they're hungry, until they experience a blood sugar drop. That happened to me yesterday at the gym. I ate breakfast - just a cup of fortified cereal with a splash of milk, went to the gym an hour later. Peddling on the stationary bike there, and BOOM. Suddenly sweat started pouring down the back of my neck, I started trembling, and I felt my stomach rumble and make noise.

I had to stagger to the front desk and ask for a smoothie, because that's all they offer there. I had them use half a pump of the sugary syrup and add half a scoop of protein. Took around five sips and felt immediately better.

I had no reason to think I needed anything to eat until moments before. My body didn't give me any warning. No one should ever wait until that moment to decide that they want to eat. It is UNHEALTHY.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Prospect, KY
5,284 posts, read 20,019,141 times
Reputation: 6666
[quote=Molli;34943226]Most raw food eaters eat NOTHING but fresh fruit in the am and they are all doing just fine. Our digestive system is not intended to be working all the time. Eating meals that may take hours to digest and following that up with another meal that will take hours to digest is difficult on the body. The standard American diet is literally killing people.[/QUOTEE

Eating a daily diet of crappy food causes all kinds of health issues that may reduce the lifespan. Expecting the digestive system to digest 3 meals a day does not cause a reduced lifespan. I also don't agree that "most" raw food eaters eat nothing but fresh fruit - and so what if they do, that doesn't mean that eating sugar for breakfast without protein is healthy.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:08 PM
 
2,183 posts, read 2,631,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saigafreak View Post
Not such a "good thing".

Eat 700 calories for breakfast, 600 for lunch normally. You'll eat 1300 for breakfast + lunch.

If you eat 1100, you'll move or burn around 200 calories less by cutting corners in your physical activity at a subconscious level, or you'll just eat 200 calories more at dinner. If the diet is chiefly starches, the 1100 calories would be very efficiently partitioned by insulin into fat cells and your body would not feel like moving much at all during the rest of the afternoon because the fat cells will be hoarding the energy rather than releasing it to be used by your body. That is why I brought up the Jillian Michaels scenario. You will literally have to be boot camped off your butt to work out because your physiology by default will not want to.

It all works out.
Faulty knowledge working here, and maybe a lack of practical experience with fasting. I am plenty active during fasts, I don't get a sudden and prolonged urge to not move, my mind is sharp and I'm getting stuff done. I feel great while fasting actually.

Also, our body does not prefer to convert carbohydrates to triglycerides so that they then can be stored as fat. That isn't the defacto operation of the human body. We have large glycogen stores in our muscles and liver(500-900g's), carbs eaten are broken down and shuttled off to the liver and then to the muscles for storage as glycogen, which is then used as fuel as required.

You are right about insulin provoking fat storage, but it is literally fat storage. Most sources of carbs(especially the processed, junky variety) also have fat along with, and that is what is stored. If not from the same food, usually elsewhere in the meal will have fat. And since fat has almost twice as much energy per gram as carbs and protein, it doesn't take much.

For 1.5-2 hours after a meal we are almost 100% running on glycogen oxidation, and there is pretty much no fat burning going on. It tapers off from there, and as the hours go by insulin levels drop off and you shift into fat oxidation. This is why intermittent fasting works so well when you are also controlling your overall energy intake. You are spending time every day running almost 100% on stored fat reserves.
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Old 05-25-2014, 04:44 AM
 
283 posts, read 384,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post

You are right about insulin provoking fat storage, but it is literally fat storage. Most sources of carbs(especially the processed, junky variety) also have fat along with, and that is what is stored. If not from the same food, usually elsewhere in the meal will have fat. And since fat has almost twice as much energy per gram as carbs and protein, it doesn't take much.
How is it that I ingest 200g of fat per day and still manage to lose on average 0.5 lbs per day, with minimal to moderate exercise? I'm not 100 pounds obese. I only need to lose 10-15 lbs. I'm not in ketosis either. Carbs are restricted to under 100g per day.
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Old 05-25-2014, 06:42 AM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,708,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saigafreak View Post
How is it that I ingest 200g of fat per day and still manage to lose on average 0.5 lbs per day, with minimal to moderate exercise? I'm not 100 pounds obese. I only need to lose 10-15 lbs. I'm not in ketosis either. Carbs are restricted to under 100g per day.
So, just the fat, all by itself without anything else involved, is 1800 calories. That's 200 grams of fat, at 9 calories per gram.

You're having under 100 carbs per day. Let's call it 75 carbs per day. There's 4 calories in 1 gram of carbs. So that's another 300 calories.

That's 2100 calories so far, eating exclusively carbs and fat.

Are you having proteins too? I can't imagine how you can possibly be eating ANY proteins, and be losing weight. your digestive system. One gram of protein has 4 calories. So if you're having even 40 grams of protein, which would be a fair minimal amount for someone who is getting minimal to moderate exercise, that's another 160 calories per day.

That'd make it 2260 calories per day.

Weight loss is not going to happen for someone only needing to lose 10-15 pounds and consuming 2260 calories per day with minimal to moderate exercise.

You're either not counting correctly, or you're being intentionally deceitful.
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Old 05-25-2014, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
515 posts, read 1,002,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
skipping b-fast isn't "starving yourself", nor will it cause you to be sedentary in and of itself(that's your own doing).

Studies have actually shown that fasting may help spot reduce fat indirectly, due to increased blood flow to stubborn body fat areas (they usually lack circulation) and the "stubborn" fat receptors in those areas are also unlocked (a2 receptors I believe). That's about as close to spot reduction as you can get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
Your sources are not relevant to the discussion. One is some internet guy whose name isn't even mentioned, whose website is filled with broken images, and whose "about" section is blank, and whose internet name is the English transliteration of the greek name for the guy who fell in love with his own image and drowned in the reflecting pool. Not a credible source, by any stretch of the imagination. His "advice" "articles" (I use the terms loosely on purpose) consist primarily of insults and bullying.

The other is a guy whose expertise is in sports nutrition for Olympians and other competitive sports athletes.

Neither of which have anything to do with normal people with normal lives trying to be healthy.

The third is an advertising page for a guy who promotes intermittant fasting and sells some books on his (badly written) website, so clearly it will not have any objective information.
Excuse me, Alan Aragon is one of the most preeminent nutritionists right now. Martin Berkhan is an expert on Intermittent fasting and one of its biggest proponents next to Brad Pillon. The sources state that intermittent fasting is good if you want to do it and bad if you don't want to do it. Both speak to the regular adult and both train and advise the regular adult.

And both, unequivocally say, there is nothing wrong with fasting and/or skipping meals in a planned fashion. In fact, skipping dinner has been shown to help diabetics control insulin levels when everyone in here would state, "Diabetic skipping food will kill them!"

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/0...ype=blogs&_r=0

Excuse me if you don't know who they are and don't like their style, however, their evidence, again, both shows that fasting is fine if you want to do it and there's nothing superior to eating more often.

edit: I'm glad you read them too because they both address "starvation mode" which you think you can attain by abstaining eating for a few hours. Nice "digging" into the articles there.
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:12 AM
 
2,183 posts, read 2,631,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saigafreak View Post
How is it that I ingest 200g of fat per day and still manage to lose on average 0.5 lbs per day, with minimal to moderate exercise? I'm not 100 pounds obese. I only need to lose 10-15 lbs. I'm not in ketosis either. Carbs are restricted to under 100g per day.
I have no idea, how tall and heavy are you, male or female, what's your exercise schedule look like, what kind of metabolism/body type do you naturally have? ecto, meso, endo...? Everyone is different. As the other poster mentioned, 200g's of fat is 1800 calories. That's my basal metabolic rate every day, not including movement. I'd also love to know where you are finding 200g's of fat.

I find it highly improbable that you are losing .5 pounds of bodyfat a day when you only have 10-15 to lose. You are over estimating your caloric intake I think, or you have a scale that's inaccurate. Or you aren't exercising or eating enough protein so you are shedding lean body mass.
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Old 05-25-2014, 09:17 AM
 
2,183 posts, read 2,631,302 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmedes2 View Post
Excuse me, Alan Aragon is one of the most preeminent nutritionists right now. Martin Berkhan is an expert on Intermittent fasting and one of its biggest proponents next to Brad Pillon. The sources state that intermittent fasting is good if you want to do it and bad if you don't want to do it. Both speak to the regular adult and both train and advise the regular adult.

And both, unequivocally say, there is nothing wrong with fasting and/or skipping meals in a planned fashion. In fact, skipping dinner has been shown to help diabetics control insulin levels when everyone in here would state, "Diabetic skipping food will kill them!"

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/0...ype=blogs&_r=0

Excuse me if you don't know who they are and don't like their style, however, their evidence, again, both shows that fasting is fine if you want to do it and there's nothing superior to eating more often.

edit: I'm glad you read them too because they both address "starvation mode" which you think you can attain by abstaining eating for a few hours. Nice "digging" into the articles there.
Yep. There is plenty of science on intermittent fasting, it's not like these guys are coming up with personal opinions with no evidence to back them up. Everything they do is backed by science.

Also, Martin has thousands of lean, strong and healthy clients. If his views were crap then he wouldn't be getting the results he does. He also accomplishes these results without ruining his clients lives with super restrictive and hard to follow protocols like eating 8 meals a day or avoiding carbs until the end of time or any crazy stuff like that.
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