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All the studies that I can find on saturated fat causing type 2 diabetes seem flawed in some way, such as including high amounts of refined carbohydrates as part of the diet.. I have yet to find one I'd use as valid evidence.
I'm not going to come out and totally say that only carbs cause health problems, because genetics can make it so each person handles fat/carbs differently.
Refined carbohydrates don't cause high blood pressure and insulin resistance, on the other hand, consuming a high fat diet rich in saturated fat will promote both (especially insulin resistance).
Again, nobody can really say this is being caused by the fat... vegans don't eat a lot of refined carbs and binge eat them when they do... they tend to eat healthier carbs in smaller portion sizes. My going theory is that high glycemic load can slowly erode beta cell function and cause insulin resistance over time... from too many carbs in a short period of time so the body cannot process them in time to prevent harmful blood sugar spikes which, over the course of 10-25 years, slowly cause problems to progress. Too big of meals with too many carbs during the meal...
Another theory is that the over-consumption of Omega 6 fats causes inflammation, and inflammation is what ultimately clogs arteries. I focus on saturated and Omega 9 monounsaturated fats in my diet, and avoid Omega 6 when possible.
Another article that suggests refined carbs and poly fats cause health issues...
I'm not saying people should live off beef, bacon, and butter... I take a more balanced approach because life is short and I'm going to eat what I want to eat... something like the meditarranean diet is probably healthiest but I add in more meat and legumes and reduce the refined carbs down to very minimal levels. I also still consume dairy, in the form of home cultured kefir with kefir grains and occasionally, cheese or cottage cheese. I eat more vegetables than fruit, fruit being high in sugar. I have nothing against raw fruit though, however fruit juices canned or otherwise, might as well be consuming pure sugar.
All the studies that I can find on saturated fat causing type 2 diabetes seem flawed in some way, such as including high amounts of refined carbohydrates as part of the diet.. I have yet to find one I'd use as valid evidence.
Why would the inclusion of refined carbohydrates make the study flawed? If you have two groups one that is consuming a high fat/saturated fat diet and another that is consuming a lower fat/saturated fat diet and they are both consuming refined carbohydrates....where is the flaw? If the high fat/saturated fat group is found to have higher levels of insulin resistance why would the carbohydrates be to blame when the low fat/saturated group would be consuming more of them?
In any case, there are numerous studies that have demonstrated this link and most control for carbohydrate intake and instead change the composition of fats in the diet. Also there are numerous animals studies that have confirmed the same effect in another animals.
This is an article about the same study mentioned in the OP. And this study, to say it again, found a weak link between saturated fat consumption and heart disease and the study didn't look at carbohydrate intakes so it most definitely doesn't show that "a high carbohydrate diet is to blame".
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz
... vegans don't eat a lot of refined carbs and binge eat them when they do... they tend to eat healthier carbs in smaller portion sizes. My going theory is that high glycemic load can slowly erode beta cell function and cause insulin resistance over time... from too many carbs in a short period of time so the body cannot process them in time to prevent harmful blood sugar spikes which, over the course of 10-25 years
Refined carbohydrates are vegan and the typical vegan eats just as many refined carbohydrates as the typical meat eater. But vegans, as a whole, do eat more carbohydrates than meat eating folks and yet they have lower rates of diabetes.
Blaming high glycemic foods is popular right now but there are many whole foods that are also high glycemic and these foods have been the staple of a number of populations. For example numerous varieties of potatoes are very high glycemic yet the populations that subsist on them have very low rates of diabetes. This hypothesis also hasn't been confirmed in studies, yet there are numerous studies that demonstrate a link between high saturated fat intake and insulin resistance.
Refined carbohydrates don't cause high blood pressure and insulin resistance, on the other hand, consuming a high fat diet rich in saturated fat will promote both (especially insulin resistance).
Wow, this is way off. I know people who had terrible lipid profiles and high blood pressure and insulin resistance who went on the high protein, high fat original Atkins type diet, and got the best readings of their lives. I know a person who has eaten high fat/high protein for more than 15 years, late 50's, had a cardiac catheterization and the pipes were totally clean, no blockages.
Count cows, not calories. Most metabolic problems can be cured by eating enough prime rib and pork chops--and staying away from white food like rice, potatoes, and bread.
[kidding in that last paragraph. Consult your physician and dietician. Getting medical advice from internet forums may be hazardous to your health.]
Refined carbohydrates don't cause high blood pressure and insulin resistance, on the other hand, consuming a high fat diet rich in saturated fat will promote both (especially insulin resistance).
Are you in the disease business? Do you profit from diabetes? Just wondering.
Are you in the disease business? Do you profit from diabetes? Just wondering.
User_ID is firmly entrenched in their beliefs and won't entertain the possibility that someone else is correct even if you point out their research is older and outdated and you bring in brand new research to disprove it. Must be in the medical field somehow because they always refer back to the AMA or ADA and are so unwilling to change theories until a major medical association adopts the idea as well. Traditional medicine is very slow to change its theories until someone rubs their face in it for several years.
Case in point, User_ID firmly believes eggs and cholesterol are bad for you.
I went through a period where I ate dozens of eggs over the course of a month last year (hard boiling them and mixing them into fresh spinach salads, and eating them scrambled for breakfast) , had my cholestrol tested, and it was unchanged. In my case, the "eggs are bad for you" theory did not hold ground.
Irregardless... I eat pretty much anything I wanted through my entire 20's... pizzas, ice cream, etc. and my cholestrol was always in the 130's, with my HDL higher than my LDL. The only negative outcome to my eating anything I want, seems to be that I did become borderline prediabetic. I am not insulin resistant, my fasting insulin levels were tested, however too many carbs and my blood sugar can go up into the middle 100's to even the middle 200's... I caught it myself and that's why I no longer eat refined carbs in large amounts.
I think the carb binging cause my prediabetic state. Eating 2 blizzards at once, a half gallon of orange juice at one sitting, a whole thick crust pizza, things like that. Doesn't make sense to me that fat, which has no affect on blood sugar levels, would cause it. I've always eaten large more infrequent meals until I knew better. As a teen I ate LOTS of carbs too... cake and ice cream, I loved my sweets. I've adapted to be without them at this point. Now I love my artificial sweeteners.
Wow, this is way off. I know people who had terrible lipid profiles and high blood pressure and insulin resistance who went on the high protein, high fat original Atkins type diet, and got the best readings of their lives. I know a person who has eaten high fat/high protein for more than 15 years, late 50's, had a cardiac catheterization and the pipes were totally clean, no blockages.
And I knew long time smokers that lived well into their 80's. Anecdotes like this don't say much what is important, instead, is what can be confirmed in a research environment. High protein/fat diets aren't known to improve blood lipids, insulin resistance, etc and that is why they aren't recommended by mainstream health organizations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo
Most metabolic problems can be cured by eating enough prime rib and pork chops--and staying away from white food like rice, potatoes, and bread.
Numerous studies, and I cited some, have linked saturated fat intake to insulin resistance on the other hand studies demonstrating that rice, potatoes or bread lead to insulin resistance in absence of saturated fat are lacking. The typical American diet is high in both saturated fat and refined carbohydrates and this combination seems to be particularly bad. The saturated fat loads the gun and the refined carbohydrates pull the trigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo
Are you in the disease business? Do you profit from diabetes? Just wondering.
No and what I've said here is no different than what is said by mainstream science....its only a handful of diet gurus that deny these things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmedes2
User_ID is firmly entrenched in their beliefs and won't entertain the possibility that someone else is correct even if you point out their research is older and outdated and you bring in brand new research to disprove it.
Everyone is entrenched in their beliefs and I reviewed the research cited in the OP and found that the study didn't support what was being claimed. The study actually found a weak association between saturated fat intake and heart disease........hardly a refutation of the long-standing recommendations to limit saturated fat.
The research demonstrating that high saturated fat intake promotes heart disease and insulin resistance is not "outdated", you can find numerous recent studies on these topics.
I went through a period where I ate dozens of eggs over the course of a month last year (hard boiling them and mixing them into fresh spinach salads, and eating them scrambled for breakfast) , had my cholestrol tested, and it was unchanged. In my case, the "eggs are bad for you" theory did not hold ground.
One wouldn't expect a few dozen eggs consumed over a month to have a big shift in your cholesterol levels short-term so I'm not sure why you think this would be evidence against the idea that "eggs are bad for you". The question is whether a few dozen eggs a month consumed over many years will promote heart disease and you're not going to determine that by eating eggs for a month and checking your cholesterol levels. Not only is it the time frame way too short, but you can develop heart disease without having high cholesterol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz
I think the carb binging cause my prediabetic state. Eating 2 blizzards at once, a half gallon of orange juice at one sitting, a whole thick crust pizza, things like that. Doesn't make sense to me that fat, which has no affect on blood sugar levels, would cause it.
Many common foods people are both high in saturated fat and refined carbohydrates but, for some reason, the carbohydrates get singled out. A single large blizzard contains more saturated fat than is recommended for your entire day. Same goes with pizza, 2~3 slices will exceed the recommended intake for saturated fat in a day. Ice cream and cake are loaded with fat, usually a lot of it saturated, as well. So when people eliminate these foods from their diet they are dramatically lowering their saturated fat intake unless they decide cover everything they eat with butter or cheese.
Saturated fat promotes insulin resistance because it changes the way your cells respond to insulin. So while eating fat doesn't, in itself, increase your blood sugar levels it does have an impact on how your body functions. For example, the composition of fats you eat effect the composition of lipid membranes of cells throughout your body. The mechanism by which saturated fat promote insulin resistance are pretty well studied. But I guess the idea is counter-intuitive so isn't well known in the general public?
(page 38)
After 14 years of follow-up in the Nurses’ Health Study, nearly 1000 women had developed coronary heart disease. As shown (figure 11), we found that trans-fat was strongly associated with risk of heart disease. On the other hand, and as expected, natural monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fat were related to lower risk of heart disease when compared to the same percentage of calories from carbohydrate. Thus, replacing trans-fat in the diet with natural unsaturated fats can have large effect in reducing risk of heart disease.
(page 39)
In contrast to Western countries, where coronary heart disease has been the leading cause of death, hemorrhagic stroke has been a major reason for death in Japan. Some of my Japanese colleagues have identified very low intake of animal protein and saturated fat, which characterized the Japanese diet in the 1950’s, as possible risk factors. Thus, Dr. Iso came to visit us and examine these relationships in our cohorts, which provided confirmation for this hypothesis (figure 12).
(page 39)
Looked at another way, high intake of refined starch, such as white rice, was related to greater risk of hemorrhagic stroke; in contrast, intake of fiber from whole grain products such as whole wheat or brown rice was associated with lower risks of stroke. We have also seen that greater consumption of fish is associated with lower risks (figure 13).
(page 48)
However, with longer follow-up the number of cases of breast cancer has grown rapidly and we have still seen no relation between fat intake in mid-life or later and risk of breast cancer, and this lack of association has now been seen in many studies.
Are you in the disease business? Do you profit from diabetes? Just wondering.
Ha! I'm so glad to see we're that much closer to solving this riddle.
Every vegan, vegetarian, meat eater, grain eater, fruitatarian, etc. we have in here stands by their diet, is 6'2", 168 lbs, is ripped with a 6-pack, is 59 years old but looks 29, has a resting pulse of 40, a bp of 99/69, has 20/4 vision, is bionic, and smells good.
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