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Old 07-02-2010, 03:25 AM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,783,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCPUPLOVE View Post
I have yet to look into the raw yet Mak. That will be my next research project! I don't know anything about it but it seems that if cooking on my part is involved it won't be a great fit for us. I have a house full of kiddos who are all highly involved in things so half the time we humans barely make it out the door with little more than a sandwich!!! I am definitely going to look into it though!
This pretty much is in support what I have seen for years. More focus and energy on a dog's diet than yours and the kids. Think about it. Not saying YOU are doing this as it sounds you are very involved with the kids' life, but it happens time and time again. 14-15 years is good for a dog. Your kids have around 90 years if all goes well.

Cooking is not involved but scrupulous cleanliness would be. I have fed RAW - did so for years - nothing against it really but I don't believe it is "all that" .

A quality raw diet will cost more than a decent kibble diet. Variety is hard to get and if you want to go hormone/antibiotic free be prepared to spend a lot of money. Nothing against a raw diet but don't think you are a bad dog owner if you just buy bags of dog food in the "4 star plus" or so category. Don't worry about a little corn IF your dog is not allergic to it - some good foods actually do have corn in them. Meat meal should be first ingredient, followed by meats - preferably no grains or if so limited grains. Don't angst too much. Each dog is different and what is good for one dog may not be for the next.

Diamond really gets beat up on for a bad batch of corn, so I hope the same people who refuse to buy from them never buy any pharmaceuticals ever (as I can't think of a single drug company that has not had major recalls which culminated in deaths) or ever eaten fast food (hamburger recalls-remember the Jack in the box fiasco years ago that left folks dead) or lettuce or spinach.....................but eliminating any Diamond Brand products takes away a huge chunk of your options.
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Old 07-02-2010, 04:45 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,352 posts, read 16,771,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashdog View Post
I am in no way saying that I thought my brother and his wife were bad owners because they did not get the dog vaccines but more for what they were feeding him as I would gasp at say Thanksgiving how they scrapped all the plates and they usually had a big crowd and give him all of it then take the skin from the turkey and hand it to him the food often even had cooked bones in it. He was their everyday garbage disposal. He also was a dog that lived in their backyard. I always played with him when I went over or tried to walk him as once he was no longer a cute puppy my 3 nephews pretty much ignored him. He was terrifed once you walked him around the corner and would get very protective and lunged at people because of that fear . They never taught him anything yet the bullies know a million tricks the way the bullies are raised is the way the Shar pei should have lived.. but back then my sister in law that did not really like dogs Yet she brought home the puppy becuase my oldest nephew wanted a dog...no prior reasearch done on the breed so in a big way they were VERY lucky as he was healthy and he really was a sweet boy.

As for the Vaccines back in the time they got him the reduced vaccine thing had not really become a big issue and there also were not as many vaccines a there are now. I have been a huge supporter of Modified ( reduced )vaccines or checking titers since I got Jazz 14 yrs ago and now my vet is too. It did take until she was about 4 for him to start doing that but he had been following the reasearch being done back when I first asked him which was the day I took her for her first puppy exam.

So in a way I feel the vaccines may be a bigger issue then the food as I said that dog lived to be 13 and was doing well up until he seemed to have a stroke. In comparison Jazz and Dash got reduced vaccines so had at last 3 years between them and even longer,ate great food, got lots of love and exercise and by 11 Dash had nasal cancer and at 12 Jazz had the nerve sheath sarcoma and at 14 has a few fatty tumors etc...so I do find myself at times thinking Hummmm how could it be that the Shar pei and my sisters 16 yr old Collie escape cancer and any big illness?
you know, every time we get into this conversation, i think about the cocker spaniel that we had in my childhood that never ate anything but canned food from the grocery store ...... can even remember the name right now, but i do remember my mom saying alpo was too expensive..... ..... she live to be nearly 18.... blind and deaf by about 14 or 15, but otherwise in pretty good shape until the VERY end......

and the cats..... one died just short of his 21st bday and the other right around her 18th bday..... steady diets of tender vittles for most of their lives.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
Oh No, ask and ask as much as needed.

A few things for you to know:
1. The ingredients in dog food are only those included by the manufacture. Some of those expensive fancy foods that say no preservatives, chemicals or whatever, well they may be LOADED with them. So long as the items were put into the base products by the supplier and not the manufacture, it's not required to be listed. A secret is many dog foods need preservatives or it will rot before you buy it. The manufacture of some fancy and expensive "premium" dog food will not want preservatives listed as an ingredient so they do not add any to their food, but they have the supplier of the meat products add it on their end. This legally allowes them to omit that preservative from the label. Neat trick huh?
2. Dog food manufactures can also introduce chemicals into their finished products through packaging. They inform the manufacture of the bags that they are concern that the packaging could accelerate the spoiling of the food, make it smell funny, allow insect eggs and larve to hatch, and any other thing that is normally controlled in the food manufacturing process. So the package maker introduced certain items into the package to avoid causing problems with the items added to the package. Since this is NOT the food manufactures products, they are not listed on the label. Another neat trick.
3. Dog food manufactures can have a product that is 75% grain but list fish as the main ingredient. They do this by breaking down the grains into individual items until it's weight is below the product they want listed first. If fish is only 16%, they can make the 75% grains dissapear to be replaced by white rice 15%, brown rice 15%, yellow rice 15%, beige rice 15%, just slightly grey but not quite white rice 15%. See how it's done?

Before spending any money on one of those fancy named dog foods with all the claims of this and that, you need to research to find an independent breakdown of the food as it stands in the finished package form and not as the manufacture manipulates the info. You may find the $20 a bag and the $50 a bag food are the EXACT same thing when it enters the dogs mouth.
wow ...... ya' learn something new every day.......

my main thing for bailey and dave is avoiding corn and wheat..... dave is a GASSY boy if he eats kibble that contains those ingredients, well, LISTS those ingredients .... bailey thrives on about anything that i put in her bowl.......
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Old 07-02-2010, 06:46 AM
 
Location: San Diego
5,027 posts, read 13,373,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
This pretty much is in support what I have seen for years. More focus and energy on a dog's diet than yours and the kids. Think about it. Not saying YOU are doing this as it sounds you are very involved with the kids' life, but it happens time and time again. 14-15 years is good for a dog. Your kids have around 90 years if all goes well.

You know, it IS possible to do both. We make everything in our house, including all condiments, from scratch, using all-natural ingredients. We're very health focused and do the same for the dogs. No hormone and grass-fed meat (on the rare occasion we even eat red meat) and no processed food. When we have our baby in the near future, the same will be done. I don't believe in feeding dogs or humans processed, packaged food, that's not how I was raised. To say that you can't do both is crazy.

My friend not only has a baby and 7 dogs, that baby was born at 27 weeks. She had to sacrifice a lot, yet her dogs still ate a raw diet the entire time she was in the hospital. The baby is now 9 months old, and my friend makes her own baby food, using only produce that is in season, instead of opening up a jar that's been sitting on a shelf for months, maybe years. And yup, the dogs still eat raw. It can be done, most people just choose the lazy way out. Look around you. Most Americans don't take care of their bodies, I expect nothing more for dogs. If feeding pellets from a bag works for you, then by all means continue. But don't try to discourage others who are trying to learn about proper dog nutrition. I know it's hard to believe, but you can love your baby and dog at the same time. Plenty of people have and do.
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Old 07-02-2010, 06:53 AM
 
Location: San Diego
5,027 posts, read 13,373,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
Diamond really gets beat up on for a bad batch of corn, so I hope the same people who refuse to buy from them never buy any pharmaceuticals ever (as I can't think of a single drug company that has not had major recalls which culminated in deaths) or ever eaten fast food (hamburger recalls-remember the Jack in the box fiasco years ago that left folks dead) or lettuce or spinach.....................but eliminating any Diamond Brand products takes away a huge chunk of your options.
It wasn't corn, it was rice gluten. Just to clarify for those looking for the correct information. Melamine was found in the rice gluten. This is why grain-free foods were unaffected. The difference between the dog food and the other examples you mentioned is that this was done knowingly. They knew in China that this rice gluten had melamine yet continued to put it into the dog food, kind of like they knowingly poisoned babies with the infant formulas shortly after that. The others were all accidents. Yes, let's trust China to make our food decisions! They've gotten us far in the past.

And btw, if you feed any canned products, no matter what brand, they are made overseas. It's too expensive to have a canning facility, so they outsource the work, usually to either China or Thailand (EVO included). This is why Orijen will never have a canned food, they want to actually be a part of their food production.
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Old 07-02-2010, 07:20 AM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,783,329 times
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MAK - I was referring to the fist Diamond Recall which was aflatoxin in corn. Many brands were hit with the melamine fiasco.

I am not saying that you cannot do both. I never did, but I will not back off that many many people put way more emphasis on their dogs food than their own! You can do both - awesome - good for you. Many people cannot afford to make these choices.

I am not trying to "discourage" but rather say - you don't "HAVE" to go this route to have a healthy happy dog. You are not a bad dog owner if you don't. People also forget that genetics as well as excercise are a big part of the picture.
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Old 07-02-2010, 10:55 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,352 posts, read 16,771,427 times
Reputation: 11458
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAK802 View Post
You know, it IS possible to do both. We make everything in our house, including all condiments, from scratch, using all-natural ingredients. We're very health focused and do the same for the dogs. No hormone and grass-fed meat (on the rare occasion we even eat red meat) and no processed food. When we have our baby in the near future, the same will be done. I don't believe in feeding dogs or humans processed, packaged food, that's not how I was raised. To say that you can't do both is crazy.

My friend not only has a baby and 7 dogs, that baby was born at 27 weeks. She had to sacrifice a lot, yet her dogs still ate a raw diet the entire time she was in the hospital. The baby is now 9 months old, and my friend makes her own baby food, using only produce that is in season, instead of opening up a jar that's been sitting on a shelf for months, maybe years. And yup, the dogs still eat raw. It can be done, most people just choose the lazy way out. Look around you. Most Americans don't take care of their bodies, I expect nothing more for dogs. If feeding pellets from a bag works for you, then by all means continue. But don't try to discourage others who are trying to learn about proper dog nutrition. I know it's hard to believe, but you can love your baby and dog at the same time. Plenty of people have and do.

you and your friend are fortunate that you have the time and finances to do all of this...... and not everyone who is pressed for time or who can not afford $10-$12 a lb or more for dog food is lazy.....
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:12 AM
 
Location: San Diego
5,027 posts, read 13,373,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty View Post
you and your friend are fortunate that you have the time and finances to do all of this...... and not everyone who is pressed for time or who can not afford $10-$12 a lb or more for dog food is lazy.....
Raw is much cheaper than kibble, it really is. My friend is a SAH mom to a baby and her husband works as an assistant at a doggie daycare. Hardly rolling in money! Their smallest dog is 25 lbs., the other 6 over 50. I would never pay $10 a lb. for food, that's absolutely crazy! If you buy in bulk, raw should cost less than $1/lb. in most places, unless you want grass-fed. But I'd be willing to bet over 90% of the people use regular, butcher meat. It's cost-effective, but can be time-consuming, especially with multiple dogs. They spend less on dog food now than when they used kibble!
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Old 07-02-2010, 08:15 PM
 
68 posts, read 244,245 times
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We got a boxer from a great breeder a couple of months ago, I think she's a walking advertisement for her food, she's on the puppy orijen dry food, and the evo canned food. Mostly she eats the dry food, I only give her half a can with mostly dry food in a feeding. She has such a shiny coat. Soon I'm going to switch her to the adult orijen food.

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Old 07-02-2010, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 20,172,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCPUPLOVE View Post
Wow so the research continues. One thing I am finding is that there are hundreds and hundreds of different brands of dog foods that have been recalled at one time or another. So making a decision based on a recall, so it seems will eliminate just about every brand. One wonders if the companies that have had these recalls are more cautious now and in some respect "safer" because they have had a devastating blow?
This is a good guideline for determining if it is a good quality kibble: http://www.city-data.com/forum/11375037-post4.html
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:59 PM
 
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Please go to: healthy pet net, Life's Abundance for puppies and adults!! my yorkies love it.it can be mailed to you as often as you want it..
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