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Old 04-26-2011, 09:02 PM
 
13 posts, read 48,791 times
Reputation: 39

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vermonter16 View Post
To me an animal is a life-long commitment. Knowing that the dog had issues and trying to work with the dog is one thing....but sooooo often I hear of co-workers who get rid of their pets because they are now pregnant (or the wife is pregnant) and don't want the animal around the baby. I can understand this....but...you knew this before you got pregnant. It wasn't the dog's fault you got pregnant. Now - ask yourself if you'd still be putting down the dog if you weren't pregnant...probably not....
The only reason I'm having this issue is because my dog bit me, not because I'm pregnant. Regardless of the fact that I'm having a child, this could pose a risk to other people -- neighbours, friends, family, even strangers. In the 7 years since we adopted her our dog has never bitten anyone so it's not as though I'm just getting around to dealing with this issue now that I'm pregnant.

The timing is horrible, but better it happen now and with me than down the road with someone else or our baby. At least now we can deal with it responsibly. Hopefully our vet and a behaviourist will offer us some good insights and options.

I really resent that you lumped me in with a group of people who get rid of their pets because they're no longer convenient to have around. I administered medication to my geriatric cat twice a day for 6 years before she died of old age. I'm a pretty committed and responsible pet owner.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
4,033 posts, read 7,964,569 times
Reputation: 4837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
So immature and full of false assumptions. Please read that my dog had a history of biting and 3 homes prior to mine. I am insulted by your insensitivity and failure to trust that other people besides you are competent to assess situations. This response is a self-involved, holier than thou position that belongs in elementary school.
Whatever Caring about the fate of an animal that isn't mine is the exact opposite of "self-involved."

And as for my being "holier than thou"? Your attitude is much holier than mine, believe me; you're the one who played God and took away a dog's life, apparently b/c you are so "competent to assess situations."

I don't care how many homes your dog had been in, or his/her "bite" history, you gave up. You could have rehomed the dog. Another home would have been better than death.

If telling you that makes me "immature" and worthy of "elementary school," then so be it. I have high standards and I do not believe that my idealism and high standards are "immature" or unrealistic, or that "maturity" entails being jaded and defeatist.

I'm only glad that the OP doesn't feel as you do about her dog.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
4,033 posts, read 7,964,569 times
Reputation: 4837
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennysnooze View Post
The only reason I'm having this issue is because my dog bit me, not because I'm pregnant. Regardless of the fact that I'm having a child, this could pose a risk to other people -- neighbours, friends, family, even strangers. In the 7 years since we adopted her our dog has never bitten anyone so it's not as though I'm just getting around to dealing with this issue now that I'm pregnant.

The timing is horrible, but better it happen now and with me than down the road with someone else or our baby. At least now we can deal with it responsibly. Hopefully our vet and a behaviourist will offer us some good insights and options.

I really resent that you lumped me in with a group of people who get rid of their pets because they're no longer convenient to have around. I administered medication to my geriatric cat twice a day for 6 years before she died of old age. I'm a pretty committed and responsible pet owner.
Please don't take it too personally; it just happens to be something that animal-lovers see all of the time and have come to despise. Any one who is pregnant and even posing a question about giving up a dog would be subject to the same scrutiny b/c the posters on this forum care about dogs--all dogs--as if they were their own.

I'm glad to hear that you are looking into a behaviorist as well as medication as alternatives. I think that, given your dedication, you will actually be able to find a successful solution. And you might then be able to pass it on to others as an alternative to euthanasia
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:18 PM
 
13,380 posts, read 13,392,238 times
Reputation: 11039
penny my heart goes out to you, your family and your dog. try your best to find some rescue that will take the dog. be it whippet or GS rescue. I think the "luxury" of giving the dog meds to allow it time to see if the behavior will change may be something someone else should do besides you. you have a short time before the baby comes and it is doubtful you will ever be able to trust the dog with your baby. if the dog can be saved getting it to a pro that has experience in this area is best, and asap.

it is obvious you are a committed and caring dog owner. do your best to rehome and if you can't you must PTS for the sake of your baby and your peace of mind. I am sure your hubby wants to help the dog too, but a pro or a rescue will have more success in helping the dog at this point.

good luck
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
1,300 posts, read 2,889,919 times
Reputation: 1218
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
I don't care how many homes your dog had been in, or his/her "bite" history, you gave up. You could have rehomed the dog. Another home would have been better than death.
I have to disagree with you here, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree because we both feel strongly. I can't support putting an agressive dog in a new home unless it is with a trainer who takes full responsibility for the dog, will work with the dog and knows the dog's history. In all of these homes you're talking about how many more people are going to get hurt? Or possibly killed if it's a child that's bit? Is killing the dog worse than the dog hurting or possibly killing someone else? Please don't think I mean to instigate an argument with you. I just feel differently about this. I have agonized over this issue as the OP is doing now and before I was actually there I have to say I would have completely agreed with your position. I wanted to see my dog running around with my future kids, I always imagined taking care of him when he was an old grey dog; everything changes after an attack happens. It's heartbreaking.

For my dog, I spoke with every rescue in my area (breed specific and otherwise) and all of them recommended euthanasia. I spoke with people who had worked with german shepherds for 20+ years (training and rescue). I recommended that the OP explore every option; obviously euthanasia is the absolute last resort. But if it comes down to that, I hope her and her husband are at peace with their decision.

Last edited by J-CityRelo; 04-27-2011 at 08:09 AM..
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Simmering in DFW
6,947 posts, read 18,032,788 times
Reputation: 7141
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-CityRelo View Post
I have to disagree with you here, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree because we both feel strongly. I can't support putting an agressive dog in a new home unless it is with a trainer who takes full responsibility for the dog, will work with the dog and knows the dog's history. In all of these homes you're talking about how many more people are going to get hurt? Or possibly killed if it's a child that's bit? Is killing the dog worse than the dog hurting or possibly killing someone else? Please don't think I mean to instigate an argument with you. I just feel differently about this. I have agonized over this issue as the OP is doing now and before I was actually there I have to say I would have completely agreed with your position. I wanted to see my dog running around with my future kids, I always imagined taking care of him when he was an old grey dog; everything changes after an attack happens. It's heartbreaking.

For my dog, I spoke with every rescue in my area (breed specific and otherwise) and all of them recommended euthanasia. I spoke with people who had worked with german shepherds for 20+ years (training and rescue). I recommended that the OP explore every option; obviously euthanasia is the absolute last resort. But if it comes down to that, I hope her and her husband are at peace with their decision.
I was a volunteer with the rescue group that I got my dog from. After his last incident (he'd bitten at least 3 people a year during my 5 years owning him) I knew he wouldn't be taken by anyone else. I'd engaged 2 behaviorists (who each said best I could do was manage him) and took him to training every year for the 5 years I owned him. He was just wired wrong, even though he did come from a reputable breeder to whom he had been returned from each of the 3 prior owners and the breeder surrendered him to my rescue group. He had nipped my grandchild twice before I finally gave up and I did fear he would really bite her badly some day; I usually had him muzzled when she visited. He would run up to someone tail wagging and roll on his back and give belly and have a wonderful exchange and then a few minutes later sometimes snarl and bite that same person. Before owning Buddy, I never believed one should put down a healthy dog........ now, though, I have a different opinion and learned you need to consider a dog with profound behavior issues to be an unhealthy dog.

Last edited by Squirl; 04-27-2011 at 09:15 AM..
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:56 AM
 
1,257 posts, read 3,855,274 times
Reputation: 1003
[quote=pennysnooze;18904496] In the 7 years since we adopted her our dog has never bitten anyone so it's not as though I'm just getting around to dealing with this issue now that I'm pregnant. QUOTE]

Squirl and J-CityRelo,
You both have gone through the difficult decision to euthanize your dogs. Your decisions are right for your circumstance. I can't speak for the op. If I have a dog who has never bitten anyone and keeps me accompanied and wags her tail every time she sees me for seven years, bit me in defense of herself once, I will try to work with her.
We all make assumptions here since we don't know the dog history. Perhaps, her dog was placed in a shelter because her previous owner was having a baby. Perhaps the dog was severely abused by a pregnant woman prior to be adopted. Perhaps, the dog has some medical problems including mental problems due to her age (Serotonin level too high or low) and can be dealt with medicine (not by behaviorists only). We simply don’t know. And sometime, a dog‘s anxiety level can be reduced when there is another dog or a dog pack around. If any of these assumptions is true, the dog may be saved.
We just don’t know. We will never know if we just euthanize the dog. In the end, OP needs to decide and I will support her decision. But we, including everyone, need to provide as much information as possible for her to decide.
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Old 10-07-2011, 09:26 PM
 
1 posts, read 3,318 times
Reputation: 10
Hi Penny,
I know this is an older post but I was trying to find something online like what happened to me as well I wanted to reply just in case you're still checking.

Tonight my 2 year old Shih tzu attacked me as I went to wash his face after getting dirty outside with my other dog. I had given them both bones prior and Henry had taken it to my bed to eat which he does to keep my fat cat away from trying to seize it.

Well that was a very, very, bad move. As I went to clean his whiskers he viciously attacked me. As I tried to turn away so he wouldn't injure my face his claws tore through my shirt and I have two large gashes he cut through my skin.

As they are on the middle of my back I had to wake up my mother who lives near by, thankfully, and I drove over to have her clean it and dress it for me.

Henry was a pound rescue. He had been at the shelter two weeks and his time was drawing near. They had told me that he was afraid of children and would snap at men but that was it. He has a couple of time growled at me but I have always been able to redirect his aggression onto something other than me. I've tried reading things to figure out how to manage this and I have been trying to do it, but apparently it hasn't worked.

He obviously has some major behavioral problems from his first life. I know there are no 'mean' dogs. My mom said that 'oh, he just has a mean streak' but she's older and not from our modern age that knows that just isn't the case.

He is a very sweet and affectionate dog, but this aggression towards me needs to stop. I don't know what the answer is as we just moved into a new home and are not people that have a lot of extraneous money right now to hire a professional behaviorist. I'm going to talk to my vet, but I know that it's a situation where I am going to have to figure out how to get him some help.

I can't walk around being afraid of my shih tzu but right now that is what I'm doing. Incidentally it was our other dog, molly, a rotti/lab that intervened and drug him off of me. He was literally attacking my back and tore my shirt right in half.

Well not sure if you get this, but I would love to know what you have done since your post. Some of the people are just being mean with what they had to say to you and I just don't understand why some people are like that.

Andrea in NC

PS regarding your attack, if what you surmise is accurate about your dog hurting his nail and then attacking then that is something called pain aggression. we lost our cat last summer when a neighbors dog was trying to play with it and our cat scratched him and he killed her. It's not uncommon in dogs with a bad prior history as was the case with their dog. He was a pit bull rescue that had lived on the streets as a dumped puuppy until rescued by them.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 32,416,613 times
Reputation: 7013
Quote:
Originally Posted by savingtess View Post
Hi Penny,
I know this is an older post but I was trying to find something online like what happened to me as well I wanted to reply just in case you're still checking.

Tonight my 2 year old Shih tzu attacked me as I went to wash his face after getting dirty outside with my other dog. I had given them both bones prior and Henry had taken it to my bed to eat which he does to keep my fat cat away from trying to seize it.

Well that was a very, very, bad move. As I went to clean his whiskers he viciously attacked me. As I tried to turn away so he wouldn't injure my face his claws tore through my shirt and I have two large gashes he cut through my skin.

As they are on the middle of my back I had to wake up my mother who lives near by, thankfully, and I drove over to have her clean it and dress it for me.

Henry was a pound rescue. He had been at the shelter two weeks and his time was drawing near. They had told me that he was afraid of children and would snap at men but that was it. He has a couple of time growled at me but I have always been able to redirect his aggression onto something other than me. I've tried reading things to figure out how to manage this and I have been trying to do it, but apparently it hasn't worked.

He obviously has some major behavioral problems from his first life. I know there are no 'mean' dogs. My mom said that 'oh, he just has a mean streak' but she's older and not from our modern age that knows that just isn't the case.

He is a very sweet and affectionate dog, but this aggression towards me needs to stop. I don't know what the answer is as we just moved into a new home and are not people that have a lot of extraneous money right now to hire a professional behaviorist. I'm going to talk to my vet, but I know that it's a situation where I am going to have to figure out how to get him some help.

I can't walk around being afraid of my shih tzu but right now that is what I'm doing. Incidentally it was our other dog, molly, a rotti/lab that intervened and drug him off of me. He was literally attacking my back and tore my shirt right in half.

Well not sure if you get this, but I would love to know what you have done since your post. Some of the people are just being mean with what they had to say to you and I just don't understand why some people are like that.

Andrea in NC

PS regarding your attack, if what you surmise is accurate about your dog hurting his nail and then attacking then that is something called pain aggression. we lost our cat last summer when a neighbors dog was trying to play with it and our cat scratched him and he killed her. It's not uncommon in dogs with a bad prior history as was the case with their dog. He was a pit bull rescue that had lived on the streets as a dumped puuppy until rescued by them.
You probably shouldn't walk around afraid of a Shih Tzu at all.
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:38 PM
 
2,873 posts, read 4,344,749 times
Reputation: 4248
I think you need to consider two things here:

It doesn't sound like the attack was unprovoked- your dog was injured, and reacted as many, many animals would. The first rule in dealing with animals is realizing ANY animal can attack when injured. If you decide to rehome this dog and ever get another dog in the future, there is always the risk that the new dog will someday be hurt and snap at either yourself or your child. That's just one of the risks of owning a pet. Realize also that from the dog's POV, she was hurt AND you were restraining her. In her mind, YOU were the source of her pain, since you had her in that position.

Also, you said you came away with some scrapes and bruises. It sounds like she had the opportunity to do more serious damage, but didn't. This means she was restraining herself and using bite inhibition. Snapping without causing serious injury IS a warning.

I think the underlying issue here is that you've never trusted this dog, not really. If you felt your trainers weren't solving the real issue, you should have sought different trainers- I would suggest a board certificated behaviorist. I don't think your feelings are really about this incident, but perhaps some anxiety you've been feeling for some time.

Only you can decide what to do, but I don't think this dog's actions suggest an unbalanced or dangerous animal- just one who was hurt, felt trapped, and lashed out without causing the damage she was capable of. At most, I think you could rehome her, but euthanizing a dog for defending herself seems very unfair.
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