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Old 06-15-2011, 08:24 PM
 
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Are there complications to spaying younger? I got mine from the shelter at 8 weeks and she was spayed because she was past 4 pounds (although barely).
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiroptera View Post
A "schnoodle/schoodle" is a cross between some kind of schnauzer and some kind of poodle, I guess? And at that, size, I am guessing not the standard size of either breed, so you have a smallish mixed-breed dog.

Six months is the standard age that most vets recommend. Chances are he'll be fine being neutered at that age...I'm assuming you are not training him for anything. There is no medical reason to neuter a dog unless you don't think you can manage to contain an intact dog responsibly; doing a pediatric neuter may make the dog more puppy-ish and easier-going for his whole life. Most people like this.

Personally I would wait another six months (or not neuter at all, unless there's some reason you want to) but if your goal is an easy-going, socially-acceptable pet, then now is as good a time as any. He'll be fine.

I'd wait too as long as there is no behavioral reason you are wanting to neuter him earlier. There is no reason to place the additional stress on his adrenal glands or on his bones by neutering him earlier than a year. The linked article suggests a specific number of months following his routine of "cocking" his leg (lifting to pee).

By waiting the dog will fill out in the chest/shoulders and look more like a male, less leggy, than by neutering him early. Simlarly, when females are spayed too young they lose their "feminine" appearance and grow larger more like males.

http://www.doglistener.co.uk/neuteri...eutering.shtml
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:34 PM
 
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I have a cocker/poodle mix and my vet didn't want to neuter him until 6 mos. I went ahead and had him neutered anyway at 4 1/2 months old at a local spay/neuter clinic that had been recommended by a friend and he did great! The clinic ended up being about 1/3 the price of the vet and they took GREAT care of him and I got him microchipped at the same time. Actually I had a thread on here asking about doing it at a clinic vs the vet and got some really helpful info from the other posters.
One of the main reasons I didn't want to wait was that even though he was/is pretty well behaved he had some issues that I had been working on with him and I didn't want his raging hormones to come into the picture and mess up our progress. Anyway, the clinic said the younger ones heal up quickly and boy did he--in a couple of days it was like nothing ever happened. My vet's main reason for wanting to wait is that there is a higher risk for bone cancer later in life. He's almost 7 months now and I have no regrets. Hopefully it won't be an issue when he's a senior dog, though...
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Old 06-15-2011, 08:46 PM
 
Location: SE Michigan
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I did say go for it, I also said that neutering would not change a dog's tendency to nip and bite people: true. I also suggested waiting until growth plates closes - we are in agreement.

Prostate and testicular cancer are not that common; certainly intact dogs are not "highly prone." Plus there is ample evidence that pediatric speuter has many risks as well as benefits - again we are in agreement.

The OP presumably asked because s/he very wisely has the critical thinking skills to double-check the vet's recommendation.

People who highly value and love their show or working/sport dogs; dogs who typically have much fuller, richer lives than your average family pet keep them intact are usually more knowledgeable and much more invested in their pet that a "normal" (your word) owner yet keep them intact - at least until maturity.

I did say that if someone wants an easy-going family dog, then neutering at six months is fine...but I did raise the point that neutering a dog does not have to be a given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxywench View Post
chiro, thile i agree that neutering doesnt change traits and drives,
i dont think suggesting a normal person keep thier dog intact is a good idea either, there are MANY risks to keeping an intact make who will never be bred, unneutered males not used for breeding are highly prone to testicular cancer and more so a scilent killer of prostate cancer.

in the op's case they want to neuter so i say go for it...

in terms of when...generally with TOY and Giant breeds i wait, 8 months minimum for toy breeds (i like them to get a little larger for saftey before surgery) and for GIANT breeds i like long bone development to finnish out (generally around 1 1/2-2 yrs of age...

for medium-large breeds i usually like the 8-12 month window, but for anything thats going to mature in the 15-50lb range i generally suggest (after much discussion with vets about the topic) between 6-8 months of age.

i dont like pediatric spay/neuter or anything before 6 months, but for many breeds the 6-8 month range is usually the "safe zone"
if your vet says 6 and your comofrtable with that, then that should be your aim.


side note...
would love to see pics of your little schnauzer mix...i love shcnauzer faces :P
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:04 PM
 
Location: SE Michigan
6,191 posts, read 15,263,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txtransplant2010 View Post
IMy vet's main reason for wanting to wait is that there is a higher risk for bone cancer later in life.
Eiher your vet is woefully uninformed and untrustworthy, or you misunderstood her.

Bone cancer is virtually nonexistent in smaller-medium sized dogs (such as cockers and poodles) but is not uncommon in medium-large dogs and very common in giant-large-breed dogs. I've had Rottweilers for almost 30 years; they are practically the poster-child breed for bone cancer (along with wolfhounds and a few other big dogs) and I have lost three to bone cancer...I am extremely informed on the topic.

Several studies on large-giant breeds have shown significant increase in risk - 200-300 percent - in osteo (sarcoma)-prone dogs and pediatric spay/neuter. This is such common knowledge that almost 20 years ago a breeder I bought a Rottweiler from included in her contract that the dog not be neutered prior to 14 months of age. This anecdote precedes this study and others like it:

Endogenous Gonadal Hormone Exposure and Bone Sarcoma Risk

There is also a giant raft of studies indicating that pediatric-speutered dogs have much greater risk of orthopedic problems; which in turn are an indicator for bone cancer late in life.

Since the OP has a small-breed dog, this isn't so much of an issue but I dis have to point out that either your vet is completely wrong or you misunderstood what he or she said, because that is contrary to everything I have ever heard about bone cancer. If you have opposing evidence I'd love to see it!
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:47 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,350 posts, read 16,728,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poised View Post
Are there complications to spaying younger? I got mine from the shelter at 8 weeks and she was spayed because she was past 4 pounds (although barely).

bailey and dave are both from the same shelter ..... a shelter that neuters before the dog is adopted out..... bailey was spayed at 4 months (about 16 weeks) of age .... and at age 5 tore the acl in her left knee and then 9 months later tore the acl in her right knee..... from research i have done over the last year or so, i am convinced that her early spay contributed to her orthopedic problems.....

dave was neutered at 8 weeks ( i adopted him at 10 months).... he is long and lean and rangy, which i understand is common with boys neutered so young.... he also still squats to pee at age 2-1/2 and has never marked a thing in his life.... not an issue as far as i am concerned..... but after what bailey has been through with her knees, i am very leery of what dave might experience as he gets older..... particularly given how he leaps around when he is running and playing.....

my advice .... wait until your pup is at least 7-8 months or more of age...... and be a responsible owner to ensure he does not make more mixed breeds for the shelter system to deal with......
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Old 06-16-2011, 04:55 AM
 
Location: SE Michigan
6,191 posts, read 15,263,800 times
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Studies linking dog spaying with shorter lifespans:
Study links dog spaying with shorter lifespan | PetConnection.com
New Study – Extend Your Dog’s Lifespan by over 30% : Whole Dog News

.pdf on risks:
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf (broken link)

A summary of an AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association) paper on the best time to spay or neuter:
Spay/neuter: What does the science say? | PetConnection.com

Dr Zink is a well-respected veterinarian and author; her take:
Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete

There are also benefits to spaying and neutering, but most of them are for the convenience of the owners, noit the health of the dog - don't have to deal with messy heats, males are less likely to be territorial or dog-aggressive (although spaying has been linked to increased aggression in females), and obviously there is no risk of the dog producing "oops" litters thus no need for owners to be vigilant on that score.

The best decisions are fully-informed decisions, IMO, which is why some of us like to present information like the above to counteract the more common and socially-acceptable advice you see everywhere urging owners to automatically spay or neuter baby dogs.
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:45 AM
 
57 posts, read 275,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty View Post

my advice .... wait until your pup is at least 7-8 months or more of age...... and be a responsible owner to ensure he does not make more mixed breeds for the shelter system to deal with......
Unfortunately, that's not the case. She was spayed without my choice. They told me I had to spay her to adopt her, which is the night before I was able to take her home. So she was already spayed at 8 weeks of age and 4 pounds.
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Old 06-16-2011, 05:58 AM
 
Location: zone 5
7,330 posts, read 13,128,510 times
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An "oops" litter is a lot more than an inconvenience for the owner. There are 10,000 or so animals euthanized every day in this country. The average person (not referring to the OP) has a pretty casual attitude about how easily an "oops" can happen, even if their dog is in a fenced yard when outside. Hence the early spay/neuters by shelters. They just can't rely on people to follow through on it later, and keep their dogs away from the opposite sex in the meantime. And thus the insistence by most of us that all pets should be spayed or neutered at some point, unless they are purebred dogs belonging to responsible breeders. There are risks and benefits to health either way, I think most people being reasonable will agree to that.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:17 AM
 
Location: SE Michigan
6,191 posts, read 15,263,800 times
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I wasn't categorizing "oops" litters under inconvenience, hence the word "and" in the sentence.

Nowhere have I said that anyone should or should not spay or neuter....I'm simply providing information so people can make informed choices. And to counteract some of the misleading information out there that's so very prevalent.

I have been very active in rescue for over 20 years, and I would never adopt out an animal without it being spayed or neutered first, and that includes pediatric speuter. On Tuesday I had a 7 month old foster dog I just got neutered. (Both of my personal male dogs are intact, though my female was spayed several months after her first heat at a little over a year old.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by subject2change View Post
An "oops" litter is a lot more than an inconvenience for the owner. There are 10,000 or so animals euthanized every day in this country. The average person (not referring to the OP) has a pretty casual attitude about how easily an "oops" can happen, even if their dog is in a fenced yard when outside. Hence the early spay/neuters by shelters. They just can't rely on people to follow through on it later, and keep their dogs away from the opposite sex in the meantime. And thus the insistence by most of us that all pets should be spayed or neutered at some point, unless they are purebred dogs belonging to responsible breeders. There are risks and benefits to health either way, I think most people being reasonable will agree to that.
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