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Old 07-10-2011, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Edmond, OK
4,036 posts, read 9,189,843 times
Reputation: 4175

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We lost our 12 year old mini schnauzer a couple of months ago to Cushings disease. We are now in the early stages of looking for a new baby. We've been looking at schnauzers and also mini golden doodles.

Yesterday we went and visited a golden doodle breeder and he some cute babies, but he also had 2 really cute pups that were almost 6 months old. DH fell in love with one of them and we would have taken him home but there were some things that troubled us. I was hoping some of you other dog lovers could tell me what you think.

Our main concern really is that it has never been socialized. This breeder keeps them in a kennel in a barn all the time. He doesn't play with them or anything. The little pups he had, he didn't even know if they were male or female. When we asked about one of them, his response was, "I'm not sure what it is, just pick it up and turn it over". So anyway, he just really didn't seem to know anything about these dogs, personality wise. All he wanted to talk about was the genetics of breeding these dogs. I really don't care about that. I want to know about the specifics of each dog. Any way, like I said DH fell in love with this one that was almost 6 months old. He was covered in ticks and mud. The breeder told us he'd been out of town, that's why the dogs were a mess. Our biggest concern with the older dog is really, will it bond to us? Will we still be able to socialize it? Or is it too old? Is it too old to learn to live inside a house? It was a sweet dog, but it didn't care a thing about us as long as it's litter mate was around. Even when the mate was taken away, he just really wanted to play with the other puppies.

Are we worrying too much about all this? I think DH really wants to buy him to rescue him from this place. He is a cute dog, and I'm sure he would be fine but the fact that he's just being "stored" in a kennel all the time and not used to being around people is troubling to me.

I know plenty of people adopt older dogs from shelters and such. We are just concerned about it being too old to assimilate into our family.
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:08 PM
 
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The lack of socialization will definitely make him a more difficult dog to train. He will be fearful most likely and this is usually shown in agression. It's definitely a dog that will be a handful.. I have a puppy mill puppy that was in a kennel environment until 4 months and she is 2 years old and still has potty training issues sometimes. She does okay socially with other dogs( very submissive) but is fearful of new people .. she's come a long way but definitely has been the most difficult rescue I've ever dealt with. Hopefully you guys have lots of time and patience. It does sound like this breeder should be reported to authorities though as he's not taking care of these dogs.
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
4,033 posts, read 8,590,104 times
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This person is what most refer to as the dreaded "backyard breeder." I am not sure what the laws are in OK, but he/she is not a reputable breeder, and should be reported to the local Animal Care and Control. Even if he/she has a license as a breeder and is not doing anything *technically* illegal, he/she is not properly caring for these animals but is simply housing them to sell them for a profit. This is standard procedure for a disreputable breeder: there is no consideration for the animals' health or their care, the breeder simply spends as little as possible on them until the animal is sold for as much profit as possible. Such breeders are even known to kill dogs that do not sell after a certain age (b/c it is less likely that they will sell as they age).

In short, report this person. If they are not found to be doing anything illegal, then I would ask that a vet inspect the older dog that your DH likes, and I would give the dog a home. It will be more challenging than with a puppy but you will *literally* be saving the dog's life and giving it a chance for a decent one, at that.

If the authorities come out and arrest the breeder and/or confiscate the animals, then I would try to adopt from the local shelter, maybe even the same dog that DH likes after it has been vetted, cleaned up, spayed/neutered and given a clean bill of health.

However, I doubt that the latter will happen. So, if I were you, I'd go back and save that dog. I really wouldn't worry about it's age; in fact, it's the "We only want a puppy" mentality that causes many dogs to end up in shelters or dead This puppy will still bond with you and you will still be able to train it; it wants to play with other dogs b/c it is neglected and undersocialized and is seeking out as much interaction as it can get, which you will probably be able to give in spades if you take it home.
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,484 posts, read 43,730,834 times
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sounds like a puppy mill to me. There are plenty of older socialized dogs available for rescue who have social skills and lost their family due to job loss or foreclosure. I would not take a chance on a pup so poorly cared for like this dog.
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Old 07-10-2011, 06:59 PM
 
Location: zone 5
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I agree, call animal control and report this guy. Do not listen to any excuses about the condition of the dogs. Being out of town is no excuse.
As far as his socialization, it will be more work, but most dogs given love and training are really very resiliant. I really hate to tell someone to give money to a guy like that, but if you turn him in I guess he's not really profiting from it.
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Old 07-10-2011, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Edmond, OK
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Thank you all for your responses. I think you all have told me what I thought all along.

I don't know much about the laws here in OK as far as breeders go, but I do know there has been much talk about a new law in the state legislature which many breeders, even reputable ones, are afraid will put them out of business.

This guy lives over 2 hours away, in another part of the state, so waiting and seeing if they eventually end up in the local shelter is not possible.

This old man is definitely all about the money. Even for this 6 month old dog, he wants $2,000!!! He never told us how much any of the puppies were, until he figured out which ones we liked the most, then amazingly they became the most desirable puppies in the litter, and therefore the most expensive. He tried to discourage us from coming to look at them at all. He just wanted to pick a dog for us, and him ship it to us. Um, no, you are not picking out my dog for me.

Apparently he and his wife had been breeders for many years of goldens and labs, then about 10 years ago, they got into the golden doodle business. From what he said, it sounds like his wife was the "dog person" and she passed away a couple of years ago. He told us, "I don't bond with these dogs". They are not allowed in his house. He actually made us sit outside in 105 degree heat to look at the dogs. If I'm going to buy a dog I want to get it from someone who loves them, and is genuinely sad to see them leave, like the last dog we had. The lady we bought her from called several times to make sure she was doing well, and that we were taking proper care of her.

Last edited by debzkidz; 07-10-2011 at 07:27 PM..
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Old 07-10-2011, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Edmond, OK
4,036 posts, read 9,189,843 times
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As far as animal control, I'm not sure they would even have it where he lives. He's out in a very rural area, on a farm.

It was strange though, all the other puppies seemed to be in okay condition. Even the litter mate of the older dog was fine. No ticks, clean etc. They were all matted, but no ticks. Maybe that's why DH really wanted that one particular dog.
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Old 07-10-2011, 10:25 PM
 
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$2000!!!!!! That's ridiculous.... put this guy out of business. You can get a high quality purebred of either breed from a quality breeder for that. If you really decide you have to have the dog, tell the guy you'll give him $200 take it or leave it.... I bet you he calls you in a couple weeks and takes it.

As far as it being the only dog with parasites... you gotta wonder if it's got other issues as they will prey on a dog with a week immune system. Please call the authorities.. rural or not these are not humane conditions and the county will have some sort of control. If he was on vacation then he obviously does not have good help that cares for these dogs when he is gone either. My puppymill rescue was originally sold at a pet shop for $1100 and she's supposedly a purebred. This means her puppy mill ( which was in OK) sold her for less than that including shipping to CA. She had so many issues the person that got her at the petstore surrendered her to rescue. She has papers and wasnt close to the $2000 he's asking for a non- AKC recognized "breed" ( aka designer mutt)
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Old 07-10-2011, 10:31 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,190,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debzkidz View Post
As far as animal control, I'm not sure they would even have it where he lives. He's out in a very rural area, on a farm.

It was strange though, all the other puppies seemed to be in okay condition. Even the litter mate of the older dog was fine. No ticks, clean etc. They were all matted, but no ticks. Maybe that's why DH really wanted that one particular dog.
Likely the older pup had been running about more than the younger ones without a mother to groom him. It is disconcerting that this "breeder" didn't bother to socialize the pups at all. Most reputable breeders will make certain that pups get plenty of handling, loving, and exposure to childen from a young age.

On the other hand, you would be rescuing the dog from its current situation and giving it a good home. I'd see if the "breeder" would allow you and your husband to get it approved by your veterinarian before paying the full amount. I can understand being torn by the situation. While you don't want to reward a backyard breeder or puppy mill by allowing it to profit you also cannot turn your back on a dog because of the conditions into which it was born.

Did the "breeder" offer you copies of the pup's breeding papers and immunization record? References of other customers pleased with dogs from this "breeder"?

I don't know much about the going price for labradoodles but $2K sounds awfully high. Is that pedigree made of 14K gold?

A year old "started" purebred hunting dog with 6 months of training will run that much. And, that is where the breeder has put a year of food/veterinary costs as well as socialization and training into it. That is a dog ready to go out in the field and in the water as well as being a biddable companion.
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Old 07-11-2011, 04:50 AM
 
Location: Floyd Co, VA
3,415 posts, read 5,129,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debzkidz View Post

I think DH really wants to buy him to rescue him from this place.

I know plenty of people adopt older dogs from shelters and such. We are just concerned about it being too old to assimilate into our family.
Buying a dog from a disreputable backyard breeder/mill is NOT rescuing, it just enables them to continue this terrible "business".

I've adopted many seniors in the 10 year and older category and had absolutely no problem with them becoming members of the household/pack. But you don't have to adopt one that's old, many shelter dogs are 1 to 2 years of age and you'd have many wonderful years together.
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