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Old 08-06-2011, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Mountains of middle TN
5,244 posts, read 14,031,515 times
Reputation: 6063

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For the record I pulled some of the scores from ATTS:

APBT scored 86.4%
Staffie 84.2%
BoerBoel 100%
Beagle 80.6%
Bichon 76.7%
Doxie 68.8%
Lhasa 70.4%
Corgi 78.2%
Pomeranian 75.2%
Chihuahua 71.1%
Poodle 77.9%

I have 7 chihuahuas and a poodle in my house. All are very social. I've pulled a few doxies and every single one without fail has been a neurotic beast. Do I think they should be banned? No, I just don't share a home with them and don't pull them from shelters anymore. I know plenty people that have them and theirs are wonderful. I've had bad experiences with them though, so I just don't live with them. I certainly don't think they should all be killed and I certainly don't tell people that ALL doxies are aggressive.

 
Old 08-07-2011, 08:29 AM
 
Location: North Western NJ
6,591 posts, read 20,828,510 times
Reputation: 9586
stan4 i do unbderstand what your saying about the general public and not trainging their dogs...
but you have to understand...
an untrained pitbull is no more dangerous than an untrained german sheperd, labrador, standard poodle, mastif, bull dog, golden ect.

unfortunatly because of the criminal element involved with the breed (which again the 'pit bull" is an umberella term for a number of breeds plus many thats are mistaken for pitbulls and most of the criminal element DOESNT own american pit bull terriers, they own over sized "hippo pits" which are a mix of apbt, amstaff, rot, am bull dog, and 'bandogs" which are a mix of thier so called 'pit bulls' and breeds like the cane corso, pressa canario and various mastifs..

and yes criminals are more likley to own these dogs becuase of the reputation theyve gotten thanks to the media....
but if the media didnt hype them the way they do...if they didnt have the stigma..the criminal element wouldnt want them anymore...
in areas where pits are banned, german sheperds, rots, dobies, pressa, dogo, boerboel ect are all becomming more and more popular..what should we do?! ban all those?!
should be continue banning breeds one by one simply because people are idiots?!

as i said, a pit bull is no more dangerous than a germal sheperd...

so we ban the pits cause there all "unpredicatable" and the criminals move to rots so we ban those, and on to dobies, so we ban those, then onto mastif, lets ban those too, belive you me...we ban all the so called "dangerous" breeds and the criminal element will just keep picking new breeds for their needs....

we CANNOT judge an entire breed based on media hype and the criminal element..
just like human kids...they know as they are taught...

personally i belive you should have to pass a personality and written care test before your even allowed to own a dog.
i think requiring a canine good citizen test or some kind of mandetory training classes, for so called 'dangerous' breeds in areas thinking about breed bans...

i mean joe schmoe down the street has a pit, he also sells drugs out of his house and hosts dog fights...
and sallie mae owns a pit and shes a sweet young mother with 2 kids and her dog has its CGC certification and is a therapy dog on the weekends...

are we realy justifying punishing sallie mae and her therapy pit because joe schmoe is an idiot and has fed into the media hype that all pits are evil?!

as a side note ppit bulls were NOT origionally bred for dog fighting, they were origionally bred to bait bulls, dog fighting was simply a lucritive side job for breeders to prove their dogs drive when bull baiting became illegal.
 
Old 08-07-2011, 08:44 AM
 
1,077 posts, read 2,690,691 times
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1885, take it easy, not everyone that doesn't trust pit bulls is ignorant. Just agree to disagree. I've seen pit bulls do damage with my own eyes, I've been around many pit bulls. I don't trust them. Now, I don't trust any strange dog, but I'd be lying if I said a pit bull didn't make me more alert. Don't tell people they are ignorant or misinformed, throw some random stats out there and try to convince someone that pit bulls are angels with 4 legs. For every fun loving picture of someone taking a picture with there pit and 6 month old, or cat, there is a pit with a Pug in his mouth.

It's amazing how some people think all dogs are created equal. These dogs were bred to fight bears and bulls. Beagles were bred to hunt rabbits. Don't tell me a Beagle is as likely to kill some as a Pit Bull, because thinking like that IS ignorant.
 
Old 08-07-2011, 11:19 AM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
17,614 posts, read 19,052,082 times
Reputation: 18920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerowyn View Post
LOL... my point exactly some of the most determined dogs I have ever known are the little ones with BIG DOG personality.

BY the way love your ankle bitter. Too Handsome by far!
Thanks! But yep, my peke definitely has a touch of the little dog's "Napoleon Complex".
 
Old 08-07-2011, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
4,033 posts, read 8,602,946 times
Reputation: 4912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everest209 View Post
1885, take it easy, not everyone that doesn't trust pit bulls is ignorant. Just agree to disagree. I've seen pit bulls do damage with my own eyes, I've been around many pit bulls. I don't trust them. Now, I don't trust any strange dog, but I'd be lying if I said a pit bull didn't make me more alert. Don't tell people they are ignorant or misinformed, throw some random stats out there and try to convince someone that pit bulls are angels with 4 legs. For every fun loving picture of someone taking a picture with there pit and 6 month old, or cat, there is a pit with a Pug in his mouth.

It's amazing how some people think all dogs are created equal. These dogs were bred to fight bears and bulls. Beagles were bred to hunt rabbits. Don't tell me a Beagle is as likely to kill some as a Pit Bull, because thinking like that IS ignorant.
I can't believe that you would tell someone to "take it easy" regarding this subject. While you may not think that it's a big deal, Pitbulls are abused and tortured every single day b/c of the misguided stereotypes with which you agree. That's a very big deal and it would be really disturbing if it didn't bother people in a very big way.

Part of the reason why a lot of dogs are aggressive is not b/c of breeding but b/c of training. Training plays a HUGE part in dog aggression for any breed.

Historically, there has always been a breed whose reputation has been maligned b/c they are used and trained by humans to purposefully be aggressive for a particular job. First, it was GSD's, then Rotties, then Dobies, now Pitties (among others). It isn't the breed of dog that is the problem but, rather, people who have zeroed in on a particular breed for their own [sometimes] nefarious purposes.

Take the GSD as an example. I know a lot of GSD's who are used for police work and/or protection. They are specifically trained to be aggressive for such purposes and they do a heck of a job. However, I also know GSD's who are bomb-sniffing dogs, do search-and-rescue, herding and/or are just nice family pets. The former are aggressive b/c they are trained to be such, the latter are not b/c they are not trained to be such, regardless of their breeding; if your theory were true, every horse that Secretariat sired would have won the Triple Crown. There goes your theory that all animals an innate, predestined nature that cannot be controlled.

Furthermore, I hope that you realize that your rationale is the same rationale that rationalizes abuse of people. To say that a breed of dog has an innately aggressive nature is just as ignorant as saying that a race of people has an innately aggressive nature More often than not, such stereotypes are a self-fulfilling prophecy rather than actually due to the "innate nature" of the abused. When you don't have a choice, you'll do whatever somone makes you do, whether you are a person or an animal, but it does not necessarily reflect one's true inner nature but, rather, usually reflects a reaction to be treated a particular way.

Lastly, you think size matters? Only in the minds of dogfighters who choose large dogs b/c the spectacle of large, brawny dogs is more exciting to the macho-obsessed spectators than with small dogs. However, if they really wanted to, they could make a Chihuahua aggressive and have it fight another Chihuahua. But, then, the all-important "macho" aspect of the practice is diminished and/or missing.

In short, while all dogs have natural propensities, it is training and/or improper care that makes them aggressive and/or fighting dogs, not their breed. And I could call you ignorant for thinking otherwise... does that actually make you ignorant?
 
Old 08-07-2011, 12:55 PM
 
1,077 posts, read 2,690,691 times
Reputation: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
I can't believe that you would tell someone to "take it easy" regarding this subject. While you may not think that it's a big deal, Pitbulls are abused and tortured every single day b/c of the misguided stereotypes with which you agree. That's a very big deal and it would be really disturbing if it didn't bother people in a very big way.

Part of the reason why a lot of dogs are aggressive is not b/c of breeding but b/c of training. Training plays a HUGE part in dog aggression for any breed.

Historically, there has always been a breed whose reputation has been maligned b/c they are used and trained by humans to purposefully be aggressive for a particular job. First, it was GSD's, then Rotties, then Dobies, now Pitties (among others). It isn't the breed of dog that is the problem but, rather, people who have zeroed in on a particular breed for their own [sometimes] nefarious purposes.

Take the GSD as an example. I know a lot of GSD's who are used for police work and/or protection. They are specifically trained to be aggressive for such purposes and they do a heck of a job. However, I also know GSD's who are bomb-sniffing dogs, do search-and-rescue, herding and/or are just nice family pets. The former are aggressive b/c they are trained to be such, the latter are not b/c they are not trained to be such, regardless of their breeding; if your theory were true, every horse that Secretariat sired would have won the Triple Crown. There goes your theory that all animals an innate, predestined nature that cannot be controlled.

Furthermore, I hope that you realize that your rationale is the same rationale that rationalizes abuse of people. To say that a breed of dog has an innately aggressive nature is just as ignorant as saying that a race of people has an innately aggressive nature More often than not, such stereotypes are a self-fulfilling prophecy rather than actually due to the "innate nature" of the abused. When you don't have a choice, you'll do whatever somone makes you do, whether you are a person or an animal, but it does not necessarily reflect one's true inner nature but, rather, usually reflects a reaction to be treated a particular way.

Lastly, you think size matters? Only in the minds of dogfighters who choose large dogs b/c the spectacle of large, brawny dogs is more exciting to the macho-obsessed spectators than with small dogs. However, if they really wanted to, they could make a Chihuahua aggressive and have it fight another Chihuahua. But, then, the all-important "macho" aspect of the practice is diminished and/or missing.

In short, while all dogs have natural propensities, it is training and/or improper care that makes them aggressive and/or fighting dogs, not their breed. And I could call you ignorant for thinking otherwise... does that actually make you ignorant?
I don't have to agree with you, you don't have to agree with me. I think pit bulls are more dangerous than any other major breed in the wrong hands.

An ak47 and a water gun sitting unused, unloaded are harmless right? Put an ak47 in the wrong hands and it's a hell of a lot more dangerous, right? So I'm not blaming the breed itself for it's reputation, but don't blame me when I move to the other side of the street when I see one. I'm not saying a dog can't be controlled, but a pit bull and like breeds are a lot harder than other breeds to be controlled. NEWSFLASH: Most owners can't control them.

Oh, and most stereotypes are true
 
Old 08-07-2011, 01:22 PM
 
Location: zone 5
7,330 posts, read 13,249,582 times
Reputation: 9611
Reminder to self: Disregard, disregard, disregard

1...2...3...4...5...6...7..8...9...10


http://www.badrap.org/rescue/hall_of_fame.html
 
Old 08-07-2011, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,764 posts, read 16,845,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestramommy View Post
Normally when people first see Shep, they say, "Wow, a pitbull something!" Two seconds later they always say, "Oh but they're great dogs!" One even said, "Wonderful family dogs, just gotta train em right." However, yesterday I got my first negative reaction. We had a bunch of neighborhood kids over to swim, and I was chatting with one of the moms. Shep was just wandering around, watching the action. He started to get close to someone's goggles so Dh corrected him and directed him away. The owner asked about it, and I said well Shep is a little chewy so I don't want him to destroy them. She said, is it because he has so many teeth? Then she said he looks a little like a pitbull, and I said, well he might be, a lot of people have said so. Then she said, "you should be careful because you have little ones, he could become dangerous." I said, "Oh no, Shep is great with the kids, very gentle." Then she said, "my friends had a pitbull, he was a good dog, a good dog, then when he was 3 they had to put him down because he attacked their child." Bit the kid's head, required 13 stitches. Then she goes on to tell me that her country (France) doesn't allow pitbulls at all. I guess they have a ban? Anyway, she said her friends got the pitbull as a pup, so it should've been okay but it wasn't.

I really didn't know how to respond. I wanted to ask if they had worked with the dog, trained it properly. But it seemed like a personal question, also I didn't know how good her English was for me to dig further. So I just let it go. She did ask if he was a good guard dog, and I said Ha! he almost never barks, not even at the door bell. Although he will now if someone approaches the door, or the yard when he's in it. And she said oh that's very good, if he's not a guard dog, and since he's not pure pitbull maybe it's okay.

Gee thanks lady. When they were leaving her 5yo daughter gave Shep a big hug, and she said, no he's a dog, you don't do that.
Funny how she's so damn ignorant about so much but is right at the last part. The little girl should not go up to a dog she doesn't know and hug it. No one should.

Typically when a child is attacked, such as hers was, it has nothing to do with the dog breed but something the child was doing. And it is the job of the parents to teach children how to act around dogs.

I'm getting really sick and tired of people putting down pit bulls. 'Because he has so many teeth'...I'm sorry, do pitbulls have more teeth than other dogs? ALL dogs can bite! ALL of them.
 
Old 08-07-2011, 01:40 PM
 
Location: North Western NJ
6,591 posts, read 20,828,510 times
Reputation: 9586
im a red head, but i dont have a nasty temper and theres not an ounce of irish blood in me.

im british, but i dont have bad teeth and i hate greaty foods

im a pagan, but i dont sleep around and dance naked around a fire

im not christian, but dont worship the devil...


lets see wanna talk sterotypes?!

chihuhauas: nasty yappy bitey little dogs who cant be trained...oh wait, FALSE
rotties: unpredicatable, locking jaws, will bite for the sake of biting...oh wait...not true
pug: fat, lazy, round dogs who cant breath, cant run, cant do anythign normal dogs can do...oh wait...false


saying most sterotyes are true it like saying anyone that looks to be of hispanic descent is from mexico, all black people want to steal your stereo and all jews are rich...
come on now...

there are certain ASPECTS of a breed that will always "breed true"
terriers tend to be higher energy
sighthounds tend to be hard to train
herding dogs tend to be high drive
bully breeds tend towards DOG agression...

but HUMAN agression...which is what this topic is about after all...
pit bulls and all bully breeds bred to bait bulls, bears, boars and yes, dog fight, were not and are NEvEr supposed to be HUMAN agressive.
a handler had to be able to gt in a blood stained ring with 2 dogs who are highly riled up, injured and foucused on one thing and that human and ANY human had to be able to safely enter the ring and not get bitten.
any "pit dog" that bit a human even in the midst of a fight was 'culled' the dog was removed from all breeding liens and usually killed!

any HUMAN agression is a direct result of stupif humans...not the dogs true nature. bad breeding, idiots owning them...

a pit bull is no more dangerous than any other dog of similar size...they do NOT have locking jaws, they do not have some majocal ability or ingrainded nature to target human throats...
and as ive already stated, most people wouldnt know a true pitbull if it reay did bite them...
Lab mixes are actually one of the most commonly misidentified as 'pit bulls'

i DO agree however that certain breeds shouldnt go into certain hands...but those certain hands shouldnt own ANY dog...
pit bull or not...
if someone gets a dog with the intent of making it human agressive, breed plays no part, they could do that with any breed large or small...
if somene gets a dog with no intentions of keeping it properly confied they are going to let it loose no matter what breed...
we reacently had a rash of cat and dog killings in our area when 2 labs and a lab x golden x jrt moved into the area and the owners let them run loose...they eventually were shot on site because one of the labs jumped a garen fence and bit an 8 yr old child...
but that wasnt in the media was it...id put money had it been a pit bull it would have been all over the papers and local news channels...but it wasnt it was acouple of labs and a lab mix and there was nothing in our local papers, nothing in our local media...

the ppoint being, a dog is a dog, some breeds do require special people to love them simply because of ther reputation and tendencies..just like it takes a special person to own a masfit, and a special type of person to own chihuauas...people who care about their dogs...

its the HUMAN aspect thats the problem, HUMAN actions that give this wonderfull breed such horrible stigma.

stereotyping any breed is no better than stereotypging people...
 
Old 08-07-2011, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Tejas
7,551 posts, read 16,396,020 times
Reputation: 5087
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrs1885 View Post
For the record I pulled some of the scores from ATTS:

APBT scored 86.4%
Staffie 84.2%
BoerBoel 100%
Beagle 80.6%
Bichon 76.7%
Doxie 68.8%
Lhasa 70.4%
Corgi 78.2%
Pomeranian 75.2%
Chihuahua 71.1%
Poodle 77.9%

I have 7 chihuahuas and a poodle in my house. All are very social. I've pulled a few doxies and every single one without fail has been a neurotic beast. Do I think they should be banned? No, I just don't share a home with them and don't pull them from shelters anymore. I know plenty people that have them and theirs are wonderful. I've had bad experiences with them though, so I just don't live with them. I certainly don't think they should all be killed and I certainly don't tell people that ALL doxies are aggressive.
Just wanna point out that its the American Staffordshire Terrier that got 84.2% and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier got 89.7%
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