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Old 12-29-2011, 09:25 PM
 
Location: The Cascade Foothills
10,953 posts, read 8,683,671 times
Reputation: 6459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by statisticsnerd View Post
What do you think about buying 10 purebred female Maltese dogs for $700 a piece and 1 male for $500 (the females always seem to cost a little more).

So that's $7,500. Then stick them all out in your garage and breed them. You can expect a couple litters per year and each one will give you about 3 puppies. So that's about 60 puppies generated in a year.

Gross receipts of $36,000 (assuming they sell on average at $600), minus let's say $2,000 in food and the $7,500 initial investment in the parents. So that is over $25,000 in profit.

If you want to scale up the operation, build a warehouse thing in your backyard and breed HUNDREDS of dogs. Install massive heaters in there to keep them warm in winter and feed them out of cattle troughs.

Some may say a "puppy mill" like this is cruel, but not if you take care of them and make sure they are healthy. It is just like any other business.
I'm new to this thread but I find this whole scenario abhorrent. But I also find some of the statements, such as "If you want to scale up the operation, build a warehouse thing in your backyard and breed HUNDREDS of dogs" and "Install massive heaters in there to keep them warm in winter and feed them out of cattle troughs" so outrageous that I tend to think, along with some others here, that this is trolling.

At least, I hope it is.

My county, because of lax "puppy mill" laws, has been a big attraction for those wanting to do basically what the OP claims to want to do. One woman sold some puppies that were infected with some highly contagious, non-treatable disease (I can't remember what it was - something I had never even heard of prior to this case). Every dog on her property had to be put to sleep - beagles, a bunch of those "designer" crosses that are so popular right now, and others that I can't remember. It was so very sad. This woman is actually in jail right now - not for animal abuse/neglect but for abusing and neglecting her daughter. At least I think she's still jail - she could be out now.

There was another case a couple of years ago where almost 160 dogs were seized from a woman who admitted to moving to this county specifically because of its lax dog breeding laws.

I have no sympathy for people like this.

 
Old 12-29-2011, 09:25 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,425,625 times
Reputation: 12832
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamhunter65 View Post
To make money at 1 litter per year,vet cost,food advertising and such would have to charge more than anyone would pay.
Sure breed more get more pups, not care about the animals, feed junk screw over the customer make it look like these animals are well took care of and then when word gets out that you are worthless and nobody buys any of the product (pups) then you lose it all..I breed for a reason not money but to put dogs out for what intended Search and Rescue dogs... Maybe if breed the perfect show dog could make money but not going to get a perfect show dog out of each pup.To do this would cosyt money also as he would have to get in ring get Grand champion bloodlines,breed Grand champions and that not going to come right away.


Good business get something better to make money on not a dog... This person needs to do more research than post on a forum board.
Finally a productive post with something that can be useful to the OP.... rather than the "stop breeding" agenda.

Maybe you can put up some realistic numbers to compliment what the OP has displayed to assist him/her in making this decision. Let's assist in improving the OPs business plan. It might no longer be viable, but atleast the OP and others will learn from the experience.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Ladysmith,Wisconsin
1,587 posts, read 6,691,270 times
Reputation: 745
The numbers all depend on breed and the problems they may have, vet cost in area you are in, dog food using are you feeding raw diet,dry food mixed? What about electric and heating/cooling cost if needed? What if mother has complications and dies during whelp? prepared to hand raise a litter. Can you do your own vaccinations? Genetic testing is not cheap, c-section 4 years ago here was 600.00 cost of 1 pup and lost litter.. 4 pups lost=2400.00 plus the 600.. for c section so 3000 lost not including everything else and we did prenatal vetting.Problem was pup slipped down and went around uterine horn and lost them all lucky saved mom.
I do not show dogs but training cost are my own as I do the training.
Kennel tags grooming cost disposal of waste and cleaning supplies... Large scale would have to have a few employee's so all that cost is involved,insurance on buildings and permits...

Right now have dog in house that is having seizures due to chlorine in water...Things can and will go wrong when breeding so cannot say will have this many litters,with this many pups at this dollar amount so here is bottom line... Not always going to be able to sell all pups at the 8-10 weeks old so food cost add on to that.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities
302 posts, read 615,077 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Finally a productive post with something that can be useful to the OP.... rather than the "stop breeding" agenda.

Actually, I find that telling an uninformed wanna-be-breeder that he/she will be contributing to the euthanasia of shelter dogs "PRODUCTIVE". Clearly YOU only care about money and profit, not the mis-use of living creatures.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 10:10 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 32,085,636 times
Reputation: 14896
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Maybe you can put up some realistic numbers to compliment what the OP has displayed to assist him/her in making this decision.
As soon as I read the "business plan" entailed the purchase of 10 females and a stud male I think it became fairly obvious that the breeder wannabe is the epitome of the type of "breeder" that folks who love dogs despise, so why on earth would any person concerned about the health and welfare of dogs assist in making this plan come to fruition?

By the way, my finger went numb trying to rep every post that explained just how wrong this idea was.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 10:31 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 32,085,636 times
Reputation: 14896
PS - for anyone else thinking about becoming a dog breeder, buy a quality female from a reputable breeder, spend your money on the fee for a proven stud and when the litter comes get some with the expertise to evaluate the pups so you can decide which are quality confirmation pups and which are pet quality. Choose one or two for yourself and in time start the process all over again. And while you are waiting for the next litter, earn a few degrees in obedience, tracking or whatever enhances the reputation of your dogs.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 10:36 PM
 
Location: North Western NJ
6,591 posts, read 20,798,138 times
Reputation: 9581
heres some numbers for ya.
1 female maltese @$700 (firstly if your paying that your getting ripped off because no REPUATABLE breeder woudl sell to someone trying to set up this kind of operation and no breeder that would is selling puppies WORTH that kind of money...)
assuming you get a young adult around 2 years old and almost ready to breed.
she will need a general vet check when you get her at $50 on the cheap end, a pelvic xray to make sure shes wide enough to carry at $75 on the cheap end, a brucelossis test around $25, general blood work at $50 on the cheap end...
She will need brucellosis tests general vet check and blood work prior to EVERY breeding as well.
so our initial cost is now $900 (on the CHEAP end)

Maltese are prone to a number of genetic issues that need to be tested for seperatly
pcrd-PRA costs about $200 to test for...
patella test (ofa) at about $30 (plus vet fees for the xrays, 2 sheets at $75 (this should be repeated every 2 years) $180
testing for liver shunt (should be repeated annually) usually about $100
maltese are also prone to collitis, and aberrant cilia as well as skin issues and allergies, dogs with these issues or with these issues in their backgrounds shoudnt be bred, so youll want to knwo the history on at least 5 generations prior to thie dog (parents grandparents ect)
so were at what $ 1300 JUST to pre-qual that this 1 female is healthy enough to breed.

now...again wre assumng the op bought an adult female here...

now this dog has no Titles, so your not going to get top dollar for the pups...
average litter size is 3..
expect a TOP of $400 for females and $300 for males for PET quality puppies (cant sell them as show quality if you dont show the parents...) so lets say you get lucky and have a normal healthy litter and its all girls... so were at $1200 (so were down $100 right now for this initial litter)

but wait...
weve bred the female and since you own the stud theres no stud fees, but your already adult male has cost you almost the same in pre-breeding approval as your female (minus the pelvic xrays) so theres another $1125.
so far your litter of 3 females has COST you $1225.

but were not done yet...
once youve bred the female you have to take her in for palipitation to see if the breeding took add abother $50 for the vet exam...
shell then need xrays later on for see how many and make sure none of the pups look too large to pass usually 2-3 veiws at $75 a peice so a min of $150
so now were OUT $1425

ok xrays show shes got 3 pups everything looks good...
so we buy our whelping supplies...now this isnt a regular purchase but it will need to be replenished regularly at an average of $200 to set it up initially + another $150 for a GOOD whelping box.
so bye bye another $350 on your initial output here...
were now out $1775 on this litter of 3 puppies...

now senario #1 all goes smoothly....
senario #2 it doesnt this could lead to vet interventiaon and an emergency c-sction...if a c-section happens say good by to another $1500-$3000 depending on complications, and generally woull be out a female because in toy breeds 1 csection typiclaly leads to future c-sections and the dog shoudl be spayed/retired) in this process you can also loose any or all of the puppies ontop of potentially loosing the dam...

but lets hope for the best, all goes well and your presented with 3 wonderfull healthy puppies...

now pripr to this mommas food consumption has quadrupled and your suplimenting with a good quality prenatal multivit...so up goes the food bill...adog that cost $1 a day to feed is going to cost close to $5 a day to feed during pregnancy and for 6-8 weeks prior. so say hello to the food bill...
puppies are born, they and momma need to see the vet at 2-3 days old...hello $50 for the vet check + potentially another $25 for an oxy shot if you wernt there for delivery to make sure momma passed all the placentas...plus about $15 pr puppy for dewclaw removal. $120...
$1900 in the red right now... (ot taking into account increased feed bill for momma)

after that add in your increased electric bill for a heat lamp or pad for the whelping box...this will need to be on for at least 5 weeks...given the op plans to warehouse/garage set up, suplimental heat will be needed (even in the summer) untill 6-8 weeks of age.

youll deworm at 2, 4, 6 and 8 weeks of age at a cost of at least $5 per puppy (usually closer to $15) so bye bye another $60 minimum.
vaccines at $7 per puppy IF you do them yourself...not smart if youve never done this type of stuff yourself...but were going with the cheapest method possible here... pups in this kind of environment will need at least 1 round of shots befroe going home, so another $21 at the cheapest...
they will also need a vet check before going home even if you do vac yourself...add another $25 per puppy minimum here... so bye bye another $75

bye bye another $156.
were at $2056 in the red now...

now puppies start weaning at 4-5 weeks of age but momma should be allowed to stay with them and continue feeding untill shes ready to stop, so your now adding the cost of food for 3 hungry puppies and mommas still eating quadruple rations...

by the time puppies are ready to go home at 8 weeks old MINIMUM (toy breeds should be kept untill 10 weeks ideally) your out over $2000 IF everythign goes well...

now take into account if momma needa a c-section or if you need to bottle raise pups ect that number skyrockets more.

now this is just to get a male and female set up to breed and get 1 litter on the ground.

now obviously some of those things you dont have to do every time.
but each litter is going to cost around $1500 when you take into account all the tests that do have to be done prior to every breeding, increase in food costs, supplies and vet care after the delivery.

now were not talking into account here any costs to show...
or the cost involved in having to take time off work whenthe females due to whelp, or the time you have to take off should you have to bottle feed...
or the cost involved in microchipping, registration papers, and the goody bag you should be sending home with every puppy...
were not tking into account the cost of time it takes to dedicate to each indicudual puppy to make sure it is correctly soclized prior to going home...
or the cost involved in advertising a litter (even word of mouth has its costs, you hae to meet peopel to spread the word first...) or the value of your time involved in weeding through puppy aplications, checking vet references ect...

now those numbers are round abouts, different locatiosn will have slightly defferent feeds for xrays and vet checks...
and food costs will depend on what your feeding ect...
but i have a frined who broke down her average cost per litter of yorkies (shes an akc show breeder) WITHOUT accounting for show fees and transportation/hotel costs while at shows ect...it broke down to $1500 per litter...
average litter size of 3 pups she just breaks even.
when she takes into account the cost of showing, supplies ect, shes in the red...
and heaven forbid she has a c-section need...it upps the average litter cost to about $200 per litter as she only has 3 breeding females

breeding dogs when done correctly is NOT a buisness...if your making a profit your NOT DOING IT RIGHT...your skipping stpes and cutting corners...
the only people making money breeding dogs are the people who are running pet shops and puppy mills.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Texas
43,546 posts, read 52,637,306 times
Reputation: 70794
Op is sick and twisted. Dogs are social animals with feelings, not something you stick out in the garage. Special place in hell waiting.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 10:42 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,425,625 times
Reputation: 12832
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Op is sick and twisted.
Possibly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Dogs are social animals with feelings, not something you stick out in the garage.
Just like all animals.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Special place in hell waiting.
Possibly.
 
Old 12-29-2011, 10:47 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,754,055 times
Reputation: 16146
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Did you single me out on daycares because you know I own some?

I didn't get the vibe that the OP has no clue about dogs. I assumed that he just left the details out when it came to fixed cost expenses. Maybe I am wrong. I admittedly know little about breeding dogs. (We bought dogs from a neighbor who bred them). But I did say in an earlier post, that the OP should follow the rules.

There is one fundamental difference between a daycare and puppy mill in terms of business. A puppy is a commodity. It is expected for there to be loss, damage, depreciation, appreciation, etc. This is not the case with children in a daycare.
I had no clue you owned daycares.

My point still stands. We are talking about living things. Not just products on a shelf. And that is not the place for trial and error. Just read some of the posts in this thread about the different things that should be done in this line of business and then read the OP again. He clearly has no clue what he is doing just by coming up with his amount of "profit' that leaves out the bulk of what is expenses would be. He doesn't even how often you can breed dogs. If that doesn't say it all I don't know what does.

And the fact he hasn't come back to this thread makes me think one of two things. He either was not serious in the first place or realized how awful he looks.
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