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Old 01-17-2012, 07:16 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,391,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jifwittle View Post
Why are those the only options for you?
Because with the sheer magnitude of dogs without homes, that is the option in many cases. Can you answer the question?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
And again... THAT isn't the question.

If you insist on posing THIS question....
then it becomes about the choice of pet that person made...
or perhaps THEIR suitability for any dog.
That is the question I am asking, and it is one which is very valid given the sheer magnitude of busy people and homeless dogs. Now can you give me an answer?
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:27 AM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,794,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
In your mind, is crating a dog for 9 hours/day more or less cruel than not adopting the dog and having it put down by a shelter? Because that is only alternative in many scenarios.
If someone crates a dog for nine hours a day why did they get the dog? Can the dog not be loose in the house?

I had a Great Dane that stayed in the house while I was at work. She could have stayed outside, but didn't like being outside for long periods. I HATED leaving her in the house all day. She could roam anywhere she wanted in that house.

I have a small pittie that I found when she was near death. She stays at home with 10 cats (all but 3 are rescues that have shown up at my house) when I'm at work. The situation is different now than when I had my Great Dane. My elderly mom lives with me and is home during the day, so the dog can go out any time.

Certainly, I'm not accusing anyone of not loving their dog. People can rescue dogs from the street or shelter, and still not be forced to crate them while away. I think to keep a dog in a crate for hours upon hours on a regular basis is borderline abuse. If the dog can't have free reign of the house and have proper training then it might be best to not get a dog.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:29 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,391,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke View Post
If someone crates a dog for nine hours a day why did they get the dog? Can the dog not be loose in the house?

I had a Great Dane that stayed in the house while I was at work. She could have stayed outside, but didn't like being outside for long periods. I HATED leaving her in the house all day. She could roam anywhere she wanted in that house.

I have a small pittie that I found when she was near death. She stays at home with 10 cats (all but 3 are rescues that have shown up at my house) when I'm at work. The situation is different now than when I had my Great Dane. My elderly mom lives with me and is home during the day, so the dog can go out any time.

Certainly, I'm not accusing anyone of not loving their dog. People can rescue dogs from the street or shelter, and still not be forced to crate them while away. I think to keep a dog in a crate for hours upon hours on a regular basis is borderline abuse. If the dog can't have free reign of the house and have proper training then it might be best to not get a dog.
Please go back and read what I wrote.

Yet again, not every dog is the same, and not every dog should have a run of the house. Ask a respected dog trainer (as I have). Telling people to 'not get a dog' is ignorant, at best. If a dog has the option between being alone/crated for 9 hours/day, or being alone in a city pound for 24 hours/day, or worse, put to sleep by that pound, which would you prefer?

Strange how no one is willing to answer that question.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:30 AM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,794,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
So you are saying that there is NEVER a dog who can't be trained not to tear the house apart when along for 8 hours?

How naive.
If you have a dog that tears a house apart when away then that dog has anxiety issues.

Never, not once in my 53 years have I had a dog that 'tore my house apart' when I was away.

This sounds like a people problem, not a dog problem. And most dog (or cat) problems really are people problems.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:37 AM
 
410 posts, read 643,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Because with the sheer magnitude of dogs without homes, that is the option in many cases. Can you answer the question?


That is the question I am asking, and it is one which is very valid given the sheer magnitude of busy people and homeless dogs. Now can you give me an answer?
That doesn't answer the question either. Why are those the only options for YOU?
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:37 AM
 
2,671 posts, read 2,794,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Please go back and read what I wrote.

Yet again, not every dog is the same, and not every dog should have a run of the house. Ask a respected dog trainer (as I have). Telling people to 'not get a dog' is ignorant, at best. If a dog has the option between being alone/crated for 9 hours/day, or being alone in a city pound for 24 hours/day, or worse, put to sleep by that pound, which would you prefer?

Strange how no one is willing to answer that question.
No, it most certainly isn't ignorant. Ignorance is lack of knowledge.

Crating a dog for nine hours a day on a regular basis is abuse. Period. A dog does NOT have to be crated, therefore the question you keep accusing people of not answering is moot. If you are crating your dog nine hours a day then I feel really sorry for that dog.

I'm done with this thread. My last statemen will be people shourl reevaluate their personal situation. If they cannot handle an pet, dog or cat, without worry over their furniture or material possessions then a pet may not be the best thing for you. Go to the dog park and pet other peoples' dogs. Don't crate a poor dog for nine hours a day! And stop trying to justify your abuse of that animal. Hell, even a dog at the end of a chain 24/7 for his entire life that doesn't get fed regularly still wags his tail is glad to see his human. That's in a dog's nature. They love their humans, even when abused.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:40 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,391,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jifwittle View Post
That doesn't answer the question either. Why are those the only options for YOU?
Because in many cases, those are the only options for a person. Personally, I am financially well-off enough that I send my dog to day-care during the day, but people in my position who do not have the money cannot do that.

For many people, those are the options. Now can you answer the question?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecovlke View Post
No, it most certainly isn't ignorant. Ignorance is lack of knowledge.

Crating a dog for nine hours a day on a regular basis is abuse. Period. A dog does NOT have to be crated, therefore the question you keep accusing people of not answering is moot. If you are crating your dog nine hours a day then I feel really sorry for that dog.

I'm done with this thread. My last statemen will be people shourl reevaluate their personal situation. If they cannot handle an pet, dog or cat, without worry over their furniture or material possessions then a pet may not be the best thing for you. Go to the dog park and pet other peoples' dogs. Don't crate a poor dog for nine hours a day! And stop trying to justify your abuse of that animal. Hell, even a dog at the end of a chain 24/7 for his entire life that doesn't get fed regularly still wags his tail is glad to see his human. That's in a dog's nature. They love their humans, even when abused.
So you would rather see a dog be put down in a shelter because there is no home for the dog than have someone have the dog who cannot be around it a lot? That seems like a very coldhearted view to me.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
16,649 posts, read 26,620,346 times
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hnsq -- I think that maybe people aren't answering your question because it's not the question of the OP (regarding SIZE of crate).

But, to answer your question, I'd rather that a dog live in my home, whether in a crate or not, than live (and then possibly die) in a shelter.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:55 AM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 16,284,441 times
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EcovIke, it seems we are straining a gnat and swallowing a camel. A dog does not have to live in a den, either - but find where your dog hangs out - that's his den, whether it has walls or not. For all you know, the dog is hanging on the couch 8 out of 9 hours while you aren't there. Yes, he has the option to move, but is he thinking "gee, I need to wander to the kitchen and grab that last Heineken before everyone shows up?". I think maybe we humanize TOO much in some instances. Be cognizant of the inherent behavior of a dog. It may be too much for a JRT to be crated for 9 hours, but not too much for an aging greyhound.

My mastiff is crated at night - period. Maybe a couple of hours if I have to leave the house, but I'm basically home 24/7. My mastiff is crated because he is a very loving but rambunctious oaf. I have elderly dogs and small dogs in the home....if Max decides to wander the household during the night and steps on someone inadvertently (and it has happened), it can be the beginning of a disaster in the making. For crying out loud, 4 of my dogs sleep with me - a silky, a mutt, a blind Rottweiler, and a cocker spaniel. A couple of others lay on the couch. I'd probably be just fine with Max out at night - however, as the lights go out, he tears off for his cage. I do lock the door - just to keep everyone pretty safe during the hours I'm not my most alert. It's his spot and he likes it and gets downright possessive of the others taking a nap in it.

There is a vast difference between a dog on a chain not being fed or watered and a dog in a crate for safety's sake and for peace of mind. Don't even bother to infer again that I mistreat my animals - in my next life, I'd like to be my own pet. I'm sure the multiple trainers you have spoken with (yes, you have spoken with trainers about this?) have had some thoughts on crating as well - and I'd bet my bottom dollar they weren't all up at arms over the concept. I wholeheartedly agree that 9 hours a day, out for 2, then re-crated is not in the best interests of the dog....but you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:04 AM
 
24,843 posts, read 32,298,423 times
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Rip is the only dog I have ever used a crate for.

It was necessary because he was so fearful of being in the house.

The first day he all most jumped though a picture window.

He liked the crate, it gave him time to collect himself.

Now he comes in and is not afraid.
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