U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-22-2012, 04:35 PM
 
4,919 posts, read 19,792,227 times
Reputation: 6213

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Va-Cat View Post
You are speaking in extremes. We classify and require specific care and control of assets all the time. HOAs tell us how we have to care for our real estate. The local and state government requires us to have insurance for our automobiles. You can have humane laws for pet care without relinquishing the right to own them. I'm not a PETA activist that wants all animals set free. I'm a humanist that thinks all animals have the right to not be tortured or abused and feel that there should be consequenses for people that abuse and mistreat animals in their care.
I don't necessrily disagree, however, lets take it to the most basic core element: What give you the right to own that pet and call it yours?

The one and only underlying reason that allowes the captivity and control over a senient being in perpertuity (and the right to choose to end the life of that being at your descretion) is that senient being has to be mere property granting a persons claim of ownership and control over life and death.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-22-2012, 04:46 PM
 
3,593 posts, read 10,647,029 times
Reputation: 5197
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
I don't necessrily disagree, however, lets take it to the most basic core element: What give you the right to own that pet and call it yours?

The one and only underlying reason that allowes the captivity and control over a senient being in perpertuity (and the right to choose to end the life of that being at your descretion) is that senient being has to be mere property granting a persons claim of ownership and control over life and death.
I think we are speaking in circles here. I've already conceeded that legally pets are property. As property we have the right to own and dispose of them. However......that does not mean that laws cannot be put into place defining how the property must be maintained, transferred or disposed of. As I said, laws like this are already in place. I want humane laws put into effect on how live animals are maintained. Its really that simple and is not precedent setting. Yes - commercial breeders ARE fighting them because it will cut into their profit margins. I also want laws regulating how dogs and cats are to be sold. That also sets no precedent but is obviously being vigorously fought by the commercial retail pet trade. Are pets property? Yes but they certainly are not in the same catagory as a toaster.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2012, 05:28 PM
 
112 posts, read 219,675 times
Reputation: 57
Pets are not property, people that love animals dont care about how the law categorizes them. We dont treat them like inanimate objects
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2012, 05:44 PM
 
4,919 posts, read 19,792,227 times
Reputation: 6213
Again, don;t necessarily disagree, just that there is no practical, legal, sensible or otherwise way to enact certain legal protections and requirments for the surrender or control of pets because they are property. There are tons of rules we can enact if we accept pets more akin to children, but that is where I do not see it ever happening because we as humans must dominate as masters over pets. We don;t treat them as equals and we do not want them as equals, so we relagate them to a sub classidfication that gives some feel good measures but will never cross over from being mearly property. many of these laws that have extended near humand qualites and protections are slowly being adjusted to meet the overall premise that as property, individual humans have a greater right to control than what governement can impose. Cruelty, abuse, neglect can all be written into law, but if we as people can not agree on imposing thsoe as a right the animal, we will never ever get anything but the pet being a toaster.

By example I bring you the laws on abuse. They pretty much all simply say that a person is abusive towards an animal if they cause emotional and/or physical injury or tramma to an animal by actions that that were for a convininced of the person. So throwing water on a cat to move it off the sidewalk is abuse. Hurling spit-balls at a cat in a crate is abuse. blasting an airhorn at a sleeping cat is abuse. we know what is abuse but we refuse to accept them as abuse when we do it based on our right and ownership of the pet as property. Everyday people crioss over that line yet we accept it as acceptable because we do not see the anaimal as anything but a toaster. Sure we pay lip service to cruelty and animal rights, but deep down inside we know that our self serving needs are to control, own, dominate and keep as property that sentient being.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2012, 05:46 PM
 
4,919 posts, read 19,792,227 times
Reputation: 6213
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimalRescue View Post
Pets are not property, people that love animals dont care about how the law categorizes them. We dont treat them like inanimate objects
Yes we do. You wantt o open up a rescue. What right do you have to dominate and restrict that animals movement? What right do you have to decide where that animal goes to live. What right do you have to detrmine the life or death of that animal?

You have that right because you accept and treat it as property, without rights of its own.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2012, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
20,326 posts, read 10,401,186 times
Reputation: 7957
I only adopt shelter animals, well they adopt me. And only once have I had to relinquish a dog i found on the street because of food aggression. He was a full blooded great dane adult that weighed in at 45 pounds when I found him wandering down a road in the woods. I worked with a trainer for 4 months with no success. The safety of my child was more important to me.
I went to visit him at the shelter everyday until he found a new home, and got to meet his new owners. Luckily he was one of the happy cases.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2012, 08:16 PM
 
112 posts, read 219,675 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
Yes we do. You wantt o open up a rescue. What right do you have to dominate and restrict that animals movement? What right do you have to decide where that animal goes to live. What right do you have to detrmine the life or death of that animal?

You have that right because you accept and treat it as property, without rights of its own.

These are all questions that dont really matter in life. I didnt say i have the right too, but its what is RIGHT

The have been domesticated by man, not being able to survive in a city environment where food doesnt grow out of the ground for them. If the dog could speak it wouldnt need our help, but it cant so it would rather be sheltered and then placed in a good home than walk around the streets all day looking for food, by logic
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2012, 09:05 PM
 
Location: West Jordan, UT
973 posts, read 1,853,869 times
Reputation: 589
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimalRescue View Post
Pets are not property, people that love animals dont care about how the law categorizes them. We dont treat them like inanimate objects
I agree. I have 2 cats, one black stray & one long haired calico that was born to a stray, and that stray was taken in by my bestie's MIL. My cats are almost 14 & 15. They sleep on the bed w/ hubby & I, alternating between sleeping on warm hubby, & between our 2 pillows. lol

Our 2 dogs are both rescues, our black we think flat coated retriever w/ some Border Collie, 2ish yo Sasha. & our, sweet, sensitive, male sheltie rescue, 3-4yo, Bolt.

All of our animals are loving, loyal companions, who love unconditionally. & our 2 kids, adore the animals. Our dog are spoiled too. We just got a Subaru w/ a hatch area for the dogs to go w/ us all the time. lol We plan our weekend outings around what we want to do w/ the dogs. &, I never owned a dog ever, until these 2, & I love them.

We've also fostered a few dogs to keep them from being put to sleep before someone can adopt them. &, my personal suggestion, adopt a black animal, they are awesome!!!! =)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2012, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Vermont
530 posts, read 1,181,621 times
Reputation: 526
Maybe someone already posted this oldie but goodie in this thread; if not, it's worth a read:

How Could You? A Poem - CountryCanine

I understand there are valid reasons for rehoming a pet. Life throws curve balls at us that we cannot predict. My issue is with people who treat pets as disposable objects when they become the least inconvenient. Now I am practicing what I preach. I developed severe rheumatoid arthritis over the past two years and stopped working. I can no longer afford to live in my home but it sure is hard finding a place that will let me bring a dog and three cats. I just acquired the additional cat when my mom went into a nursing home. The cat is eight and has asthma and no one would adopt her, so she is with me. If I ever sell this house, I am going to buy a travel trailer if I have to in order to keep my gang. Ok that's extreme, i am too old for that, but I won't move until I can find a place to bring them all with me! Just color me stupid for having gotten so many pets many years ago when I thought I could keep them forever. But dump them at a shelter? No way!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2012, 01:21 PM
 
3,252 posts, read 6,308,901 times
Reputation: 1589
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
I don't necessrily disagree, however, lets take it to the most basic core element: What give you the right to own that pet and call it yours?

I bought him/her, I see after the well being of the animal, and it lives a life far better than half the people on this planet. Sounds like a good deal to me. Only reason we can't do that with people is slavery is illegal in this country.

The one and only underlying reason that allowes the captivity and control over a senient being in perpertuity (and the right to choose to end the life of that being at your descretion) is that senient being has to be mere property granting a persons claim of ownership and control over life and death.

I chose to give these animals a far better life than they could obtain on their own. Let's compare your kid's trust fund to the one I set up for my dog.
Mine in red.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:42 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top