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Old 04-03-2012, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
16,649 posts, read 26,630,359 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610 View Post
I agree with her actually it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS what someone does with their animal as far as discipline goes unless it is obvious physical abuse of the animal. You might be lucky she rubbed the dogs nose in it and not yours for saying something to her.
Jack said that he politely asked (no... begged) that she not do that AND explained why.

Don't you think that her reaction to him was unwarranted? It's not like he TOLD her what to do (or not do) ... and without explanation.

To me, this is educational information being passed from one person to another. This is something we do day in and day out, without reprimand. The only time there's backlash, I think, is when the person "in the wrong" is embarrassed and/or realizes that he/she is wrong, and/or is known to do worse in other situations.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
16,649 posts, read 26,630,359 times
Reputation: 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by beatlecrazy View Post
That's fine and all, but I will discipline my dog however I see fit, and whatever way has worked for us. I was merely saying that it really shouldn't be anyone's business to call out to the owner when they are doing what they think is correct. I think the dog for sure makes the connection, or at least tries to feel bad. We don't smear our dog's nose in it, just point to it and ask "what is this?" and that's the extent of it. I will never comment out loud at someone's child parenting, dog parenting, etc., unless I think it is abusive (or a big aggressive dog with no leash or something). That is all!
I think the "what is this?" is fine, I really do, when just pointing to it.

But I think that rubbing the dog's nose in it (NOT what you do, I understand that) actually IS abusive.

I don't know if it's so much about *telling* someone how to parent their dog, but more about educating someone who might not know that there's a better way.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Louisiana
4,582 posts, read 5,006,699 times
Reputation: 4331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
To me, rubbing a dog's nose in **** is no different than rubbing a child's nose in it. They're both sentient, sensitive mammals who deserve better.
You rock Fontucky!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DandJ View Post
Jack said that he politely asked (no... begged) that she not do that AND explained why.

Don't you think that her reaction to him was unwarranted? It's not like he TOLD her what to do (or not do) ... and without explanation.

To me, this is educational information being passed from one person to another. This is something we do day in and day out, without reprimand. The only time there's backlash, I think, is when the person "in the wrong" is embarrassed and/or realizes that he/she is wrong, and/or is known to do worse in other situations.
So do you Dawn!!
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,051 posts, read 2,078,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DandJ View Post
I think the "what is this?" is fine, I really do, when just pointing to it.

But I think that rubbing the dog's nose in it (NOT what you do, I understand that) actually IS abusive.

I don't know if it's so much about *telling* someone how to parent their dog, but more about educating someone who might not know that there's a better way.
I can understand educating, but I guess my point was also coming from the person who is doing that to the dog. Devil's Advocate I suppose you could say. To them, rubbing the dog's nose in the mess isn't abuse, and someone telling them otherwise would cause them to lose their cool. They may see that person who is "educating them" as a threat. To many people, that is not abuse. Maybe I am one of those people, but then again I refuse to rub my dog's nose in it. I've seen worse things done to dogs that I have spoken up about.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:38 AM
 
Location: zone 5
7,330 posts, read 13,176,039 times
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I think it's degrading too, and worthwhile to let someone know there's a better way.
I do point to it (well, the dogs I have now are perfect in that department-no brag, just fact ), and they do know, long after the fact, what I mean. I say "bad dog" once, matter-of-factly and drop it. But rubbing a dog's nose in it seems frightening and confusing. And if someone politely told me they thought I was wrong for telling them anything, after the fact, I'd be fine with that. We could discuss it just like people here discuss different ideas on training.

Last edited by subject2change; 04-03-2012 at 08:47 AM..
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,051 posts, read 2,078,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subject2change View Post
I think it's degrading too, and worthwhile to let someone know there's a better way.
I do point to it (well, the dog's I have now are perfect in that department-no brag, just fact ), and they do know, long after the fact, what I mean. I say "bad dog" once, matter-of-factly and drop it. But rubbing a dog's nose in it seems frightening and confusing. And if someone politely told me they thought I was wrong for telling them anything, after the fact, I'd be fine with that. We could discuss it just like people here discuss different ideas on training.
Haha, my dog definitely knows what he did too! But really he hasn't messed in the house since 4 years ago when we first adopted him. He's really very good about that kind of thing, we have bells on our back door that he rings when he must go out. You seem like an approachable person if someone tries to tell you what you're doing is wrong, but there are some real jerks out there - you (as in general) try to be helpful and they flip out at you.

Our neighbors have a big old Great Dane that they left tied up one night this past January, in the snow, for 9 hours... while they had a party. I attempted to call their house but no one answered. So I called the cops! They sure listened to them and brought Scooby in right away. The neighbors seem nice but this time I let the police deal with it.
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:20 AM
 
Location: GLAMA
16,584 posts, read 33,672,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610 View Post
I agree with her actually it is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS what someone does with their animal as far as discipline goes unless it is obvious physical abuse of the animal.
I'm failing to see how rubbing the animal's nose in a pile of **** isn't physical abuse. Could you explain the difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610 View Post
You might be lucky she rubbed the dogs nose in it and not yours for saying something to her.
She'd never do that. We're old friends.
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:31 AM
 
3,593 posts, read 10,647,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beatlecrazy View Post
Haha, my dog definitely knows what he did too! But really he hasn't messed in the house since 4 years ago when we first adopted him. He's really very good about that kind of thing, we have bells on our back door that he rings when he must go out.
Many years ago when I started to work with dogs, negative training methods like choke collars, rolled up newspapers and forcing dogs to the spot of disobedience were how we instructed people to train dogs. I'm not going to tell you that the methods you are using are wrong, I will however tell you that they are outdated and no longer endorsed by the dog training community. There are many, many ways to achieve the same goals using positive training techniques. Many of the dogs I work with from rescue activities come from backgrounds of abuse and neglect. If I still used the negative methods from long ago, it wouldn't train them, it would shut them down. I would only ask that you look into some of these positive training methods for your next dog (especially if its a rescue where you don't know its history). Positive reinforcement really does work better than negative methods.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:35 AM
 
21,314 posts, read 11,526,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
By a human. I politely asked, nay, I begged her to not rub her Lab's nose in the pile that he deposited while she was out of the house. I told her it's degrading and does nothing but confuse the dog because they can't tie what's happening now into what they did earlier.

She snappily told me to "MYOFB." **LE SIGH**

People. No wonder I prefer the company of dogs. Here's a picture of someone who has never had her nose rubbed in it. She's checking out one of the young lemon trees out in the truck yard.
Was this at your house? If not I would say you were way out of line.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Colorado
1,893 posts, read 3,513,481 times
Reputation: 2335
While your advice was probably correct (none of us were actually there), I think she has every right to tell you to mind your own business. To say it was physical abuse is a little over-dramatic.

A while ago, I was at a park with my 3 dogs (thankfully we don't have to go there anymore) and Daisy, my brown dog, was out of control. It culminated with her growling and snapping (no physical contact) at another dog. When I caught up to her, I grabbed her collar and made her sit and relax. Well, a woman saw me and apparently didn't like the way that I was disciplining MY dog and she let me know about it. She received a "mind your own f'ing business" along with a few other course words from me. Then of course, later I saw her with her out of freaking control dog and didn't say a word.

You definitely have the right to say something but she most certainly has the right to be offended and retort.
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