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Old 08-13-2008, 02:18 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
265 posts, read 1,152,489 times
Reputation: 211

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EasternMkt View Post
Well, perhaps a little explanation will clarify why so many people are suspicious of Labradoodles and other designer dogs. I have no doubt that *your* dog is wonderful, however, once you've done rescue for any period of time, you realize that Labradoodles (or whatever the hot supposedly hypoallergenic mix of the moment is) end up in rescue surprisingly often because (1) a family member is allergic or (2) due to questionable temperament. Since Labradoodles are F1 crosses rather than having established characteristics, its impossible to predict whether a specific dog will have an allergy inducing coat and what type of temperament it will tend toward. Of course, the ethics level of the breeder will tend to stack odds toward one or the other level of the spectrum.

I guess most people wonder, rather than something unpredictable, why not, say, a standard Poodle? They're smart, highly trainable, excellent w/ children, large dogs and highly predictable in terms of allergic reactions. They are also relatively inexpensive from a reputable breeder (and do, on occasion, show up in rescue although we see them far less than Labradoodles) and will come w/ standard health clearances on parents and pups. If I were crossing Labs and Poodles, I would want OFA rating, heart clearance and current CERF on the parents (as these inherited disorders occur in both breeds and are therefore likely to be passed to the offspring) and it seems like most Labradoodle breeders don't bother w/ even these basic clearances.
First, let me say that my former neighbor in Boston has a Labradoodle--and he is the world's most low key, sweet, sweet, sweet and handsome dog! And yes, that's the individual, but I've never met a "bad" Labradoodle and I personally find them visually appealing.

Second, I'll say that I have Standard Poodles (and an Aussie who I adopted, who also has epilepsy)--like you EasternMkt, I *know* that Standards are incredibly smart, playful, mischievous, sweet/fresh dogs, but the majority of the world doesn't know this. You've no idea how many people I've met/interacted with with my dogs who've walked away saying, "wow, we never knew about Poodles..." Unfortunately, they have a reputation to the uninformed as being "fru-fru" and your average person doesn't want anything to do with that; mix with a Lab, however, and voila...smarts of a Poodle, disposition of a Lab. Interestingly, Labradoodles were first bred in Austrailia as therapy dogs for just this reason (intelligence and disposition).

Now I definitely don't advocate supporting backyard breeders or pet stores/puppy mills. And I do advocate supporting/adopting from rescue groups and shelters and the wonderful world of foster care-givers, and reputable breeders if need be. I guess I'm just offerring perspective on why people find Labradoodles appealing. And also I'm suggesting that folks stop doodle-bashing There are certain breeds of dogs as a whole that I'm not particularly enamored of, but even within those breeds there will always be those individuals who'll steal my heart if given the chance. And regardless, I'm mindful of the fact that my preferences are just that..."mine."
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:19 PM
 
Location: California
10,091 posts, read 36,787,953 times
Reputation: 22096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blutime View Post
I don't care if someone buys a mutt or designer dog as they call it.
What I do mind is people trying to pass mutts off as "special". Including the rip-off prices. If you are willing to pay outrageous prices feel free.
All dogs were started from some form of cross breeding to get the traits man needed for the work they could do. But understand that it took SEVERAL generations of careful breeding and record keeping to produce a dog with a fixed style or temperment type. A "standard" in other words. More generations before it was recognized as a breed itself. Many breeders who spent their entire lives working toward recognition. What is being sold now has no consistancy what so ever. Don't get me wrong, there are breeders working on developing breeds such as the labradoodle who invest money and time in having all the medical screening and such done. Yet I feel the high price isn't warranted on an animal who has not been "breed recognized" as of yet. If buying from one of these breeders I can see paying as much as 300.00 since they have invested so much in health screening.

BUYER BEWARE: Many labradoodles are bred by unethical backyard breeders that just want to jump on that money train. If buying a labradoodle ask for proof of health screenings before shelling out big bucks. Also they may have papers, but are not able to be registered by AKC or any other such registry. Probably only thru a grassroots parent club, which doesn't carry much weight.
Can't say it much better than that!
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Old 08-13-2008, 02:22 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
265 posts, read 1,152,489 times
Reputation: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1phwalls View Post
I don't mind people liking/getting these mixed dogs, but the price is rediculous. My friend got a chiweenie, it was $1000. I don't think they should be able to charge this much until the AKC recognizes them as a breed, or one of the other dog breed registrars.
That's simple economics: supply and demand. Until people stop buying, prices will continue to inflate...not unlike the current gas situation. It's not a matter of people not being allowed to charge a high rate, it's a matter of people choosing not to buy into/condone those prices.
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Old 08-13-2008, 07:08 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,792,001 times
Reputation: 2695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
Mutts actually tend to be healthier than purebreeds so people crossing breeds aren't really destroying the breed, they're creating a new breed.

Many dogs that you consider purebreeds started out being crossbreeds at some point in history. That's how today's purebreeds came to exist.
Certainly truth in what you say but back then dogs were bred for a specific funciton and ruthlessly culled if they did not get what they wanted, not thrown back into the gene pool by everybody jumping on the bandwagon to make a fast buck.

Generation one of some cross is usually somewhat predictable - several later generations, anybody's guess, then predictablity again. If anyone really wants to start a breed they need a large enough foundation stock or they will wind up with the problems many purebreds have of limited genetic pools.

I can't say I really believe mutts are healther than purebreds. Certainly than highly inbred lines but a lot of purebred breeders do a lot of outcrossing - my working line dogs have had no inbreeding for 5 generations.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,021 posts, read 13,521,006 times
Reputation: 8045
Quote:
Originally Posted by PudelPie View Post
Unfortunately, they have a reputation to the uninformed as being "fru-fru" and your average person doesn't want anything to do with that; mix with a Lab, however, and voila...smarts of a Poodle, disposition of a Lab. Interestingly, Labradoodles were first bred in Austrailia as therapy dogs for just this reason (intelligence and disposition).
even more interestingly, last I heard, this original breeder has STOPPED breeding labradoodles due to the fact the original desire couldn't be met, the desire to create a service dog w/ the disposition of a lab and the hypoallergenic hair of a poodle.

why don't people think labs aren't smart? or that poodles don't have good dispositions? I agree, bad breeding has practically ruined the toy poodle and almost ruined the miniature poodle, but the standard is an awesome, sturdy, family friendly dog that's far from frou-frou (the poodle was originally a water sporting dogs, along the same lines as labs and PWDs). lots of poodles are service dogs, so I never got the need to create a hypoallergenic service dog by breeding labradoodles.

the labradoodles I've met have have all been high strung, and there's one I see often that's very, very poorly trained and jumps up on everyone who comes close and lunges at other dogs. most of it is training, but a lot of these dogs are ill bred and very high strung (not high energy, b/c labs and poodles have high energy. these dogs were high strung, there's a difference)
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Tulsa, OK.
75 posts, read 343,812 times
Reputation: 87
I have read the same thing as eevee. They have stopped breeding the doodles in OZ.
As for mutts/hybrids/crossbreeds being healthier than pure breds, that's hooey. If the "breeder" has not done the health checks before hand and knows what health problems there may be, they may be breeding litters that end up with whatever health problems both parents had/have.
They are not reputable breeders. They are breeding for one thing, $$$$$$$. As long as people will pay big bucks, they will take your money & laugh all the way to the bank.
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Old 08-15-2008, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Reno, NV
173 posts, read 866,767 times
Reputation: 143
Mixing them doesn't guarantee a healthier dog. I see all those breeds already existing and find it hard to believe that we need to mix them to come up with something else. I'm a pug person... I have had pugs for years. So the PUGGLE thing drives me nuts... who in their right mind would mix a hunting dog with an indoor lap dog? Just someone out to make a buck. The whole mixing of this or that and giving it a goofy name and then adding a big pricetag just makes me sick sometimes.
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