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Old 04-25-2012, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Simmering in DFW
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We have been fostering Muncey -- a small male boston terrier about 16 lbs. and maybe 18 months old) for 10 days now and he is really coming out of his shell. When rescued he was among 70 small breed dogs living in their own cages covered with feces, fleas and ticks. He's now been neutered and vetted and is heartworm negative and no lime disease. We are working on house training, becoming more dog friendly with all dogs (is afraid of and starts fights with my boxer but likes my boston) and soon we will work on leash training. He is fed 4-5 smallish meals of turkey and rice a day and this week I will begin leaving kibble in his holding area so he can free feed. When not in crated and I cannot supervise him, Muncey is kept in a good sized shower stall that has a doggie bed and water bowl and a couple of toys.

the problem: Muncey rarely eliminates. He maybe pees twice a day and usually poos one time every other day. So house training is difficult! He has a good appetitie! Since he has intestinal whips, I watch him like a hawk so I can pick up his poop. He has become physically active, tho he's a very picky eater. I am getting way frustrated standing beside hime ofteh for 45 min. saying "go potty" with no results! This is even in the morning after more than 20 hrs since the last pee! Suggestions?

Last edited by Squirl; 04-25-2012 at 07:03 AM..
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
We have been fostering Muncey -- a small male boston terrier about 16 lbs. and maybe 18 months old) for 10 days now and he is really coming out of his shell. When rescued he was among 70 small breed dogs living in their own cages covered with feces, fleas and ticks. He's now been neutered and vetted and is heartworm negative and no lime disease. We are working on house training, becoming more dog friendly with all dogs (is afraid of and starts fights with my boxter but likes my boston) and soon we will work on leash training. He is fed 4-5 smallish meals of turkey and rice a day and this week I will begin leaving kibble in his holding area so he can free feed. When not in crated and I cannot supervise him, Muncey is kept in a good sized shower stall that has a doggie bed and water bowl and a couple of toys.

the problem: Muncey rarely eliminates. He maybe pees twice a day and usually poos one time every other day. So house training is difficult! He has a good appetitie! Since he has intestinal whips, I watch him like a hawk so I can pick up his poop. He has become physically active, tho he's a very picky eater. I am getting way frustrated standing beside hime ofteh for 45 min. saying "go potty" with no results! This is even in the morning after more than 20 hrs since the last pee! Suggestions?
My first question would be - has he been vet checked and cleared? Second (yeh - its a bit gross) any chance he is eating his poo? Many puppy mill dogs do this.

More than anything - thank you for taking on a puppy mill dog. There are a lot of challenges with these dogs that aren't normally experienced with other rescues. PM dogs ARE harder to house train. They are so used to wallowing in their own filth that it doesn't bother them. Your other Boston will help a lot. Its sometimes easier once you have worked with them on leash.(I know- you are just getting to that point) Walking tends to "stimulate" them to go so its easy to praise them. Whatever you do - don't scold him for accidents int eh house. It will not train him it will shut him down. I know its frustrating but just take it slowly. He will come around!
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Simmering in DFW
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He is a poo-eater and we have to keep our backyard picked up at all times -- tho he hardly will go on the grass unless I stand there with him, he just hates the grass. It is possible that he poos in the shower and eats it (that is what he did at the puppy mill) but I would think the shower floor, which has small tiling, would leave some evidence of residue and there has been none. I am recovering from a broken ankle and when he's on leash it frightens him and he winds himself around my feet like a cat weaves. So, walks are difficult and won't be frequent in the near future. If we find he must be walked a lot, I will have to get him another foster placement. He runs and plays with my boston so he is getting exercise. I have a lot of open floor space in my house. He was vet-checked, had neuter, vaccinations and a dental (teeth, which are now puppy white were covered in grime from poo-eating).
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:50 AM
 
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I will echo the "bravo" for taking on Muncey! It sounds like he has come a long way in just 10 days. He has had some major changes in his life and I think you will see amazing progress in the future. I would not worry about how often he eliminates. Just keep up the house training you have started. His socialization with your dogs will be an immense help and don't forget to throw that huge party when he goes when and were he is supposed to. Another idea would be to ask the vet for Forbid to add to his food - makes the poo less tasty. I think with time and patience he will come around.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
He is a poo-eater and we have to keep our backyard picked up at all times -- tho he hardly will go on the grass unless I stand there with him, he just hates the grass. It is possible that he poos in the shower and eats it (that is what he did at the puppy mill) but I would think the shower floor, which has small tiling, would leave some evidence of residue and there has been none. I am recovering from a broken ankle and when he's on leash it frightens him and he winds himself around my feet like a cat weaves. So, walks are difficult and won't be frequent in the near future. If we find he must be walked a lot, I will have to get him another foster placement. He runs and plays with my boston so he is getting exercise. I have a lot of open floor space in my house. He was vet-checked, had neuter, vaccinations and a dental (teeth, which are now puppy white were covered in grime from poo-eating).
I understand that the leash frightens him. Its more about training to not fear the leash than walking. You can start in the house with you sitting down. Put him on leash and call him to you. When he doesn't respond GENTLY pull him toward you. If you have too much resistance from him - stop immediately but leave the leash on. Let him settle then try it again. Eventually he will learn to "follow the leash" - use treats to reinforce the training. He needs to learn that the leash is a good thing and not something to be feared. This is especially true if you are fostering him. With PM dogs its all about doing things slowly and gently. Its a wonderful moment when there is a breakthrough. More than once its brought me to tears. You are trying to convince them that the nightmare is finally over and they really will be able to live a life with love and no pain. Its an experience they have never known so they distrust it. Thank you again for taking him in. Let me know if there are other challenges you run into and need some help. Everything with puppy mill dogs takes time and patience. They have never learned anything about living outside of a cage so everthing is new. It can be frustrating but the rewards make it all worth while
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Simmering in DFW
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Originally Posted by Va-Cat View Post
I understand that the leash frightens him. Its more about training to not fear the leash than walking. You can start in the house with you sitting down. Put him on leash and call him to you. When he doesn't respond GENTLY pull him toward you. If you have too much resistance from him - stop immediately but leave the leash on. Let him settle then try it again. Eventually he will learn to "follow the leash" - use treats to reinforce the training. He needs to learn that the leash is a good thing and not something to be feared. This is especially true if you are fostering him. With PM dogs its all about doing things slowly and gently. Its a wonderful moment when there is a breakthrough. More than once its brought me to tears. You are trying to convince them that the nightmare is finally over and they really will be able to live a life with love and no pain. Its an experience they have never known so they distrust it. Thank you again for taking him in. Let me know if there are other challenges you run into and need some help. Everything with puppy mill dogs takes time and patience. They have never learned anything about living outside of a cage so everthing is new. It can be frustrating but the rewards make it all worth while
Great tips about leash training! Thanks so much. I have fostered several dogs over the past 5 years, but this is my first PM little guy! He's changing every day. The photo with the blue towel was his first day; the photo on the wood floor was day 5.
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Foster Puppy Mill Rescue hardly pees/poos-img_3494.jpg   Foster Puppy Mill Rescue hardly pees/poos-img_3495.jpg  
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:57 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
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He Doesnt HATE the Grass Hes SCARED of it! Big difference! Whan I got LadyBug she was scared of newspaper grass cement lenloem Every thing BUT Carpet! Seems the breeder kept her in a 4x4 cage with towels! She still thinks carpets towel Anything cloth IS the place to potty! She never eaten her poo BUT she would Play in it! I dont mean roll she would just ignore it being there & go on playing with a toy or chewy while laying in it. Now she goes outside in grass walks on sidewalks potties on paper! Yep she still potties on carpet BUT sleeps on towel BUT no longer potties on it [wahooo] & for 2 months she would leave the carpet potty on paper then come back to play!! But then she had a set back ..she back to using the carpet!! ugh
My advice Keep working with your guy at least you knew his true back ground! Keep introducing him to grass, etc! Praise him when he does right Even walking on grass is a huge step for these dogs!!
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:51 AM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
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There's also some stuff you can get at Petsmart, and I totally forget the name of it - but it tastes bad and smells bad and will keep them from poo eating. Allegedly....it worked for one of my rescues, but the other - well, let's just say kisses were only an aspiration for a very long time!

Also, I note you say you are feeding turkey and rice but intend to go to kibble - and that's great - but if you are concerned about his fluid intake at all, after a vet check you might consider a raw diet. Mine tend to pee much more than other dogs, but they consume less water out of the bowl since they get it in their food.

Patience, grasshopper - and it sounds like you have bucketfuls of patience! I also had a puppy mill dog, and one that was a bait dog that was raised on concrete. They took extra work to incorporate into the household - and they were an extra joy to us, seeing how far they came with just a little love and encouragement!

Thank you for taking a dog with a few minor issues, and thank you for FOSTERING! That's really special - too few fosters in this world. I myself continued to fail fostering 101, 102, 103, 104...well, I was just a lousy foster but a fabulous adopter! Kudos to you for your efforts!
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:59 AM
 
3,593 posts, read 10,642,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
Great tips about leash training! Thanks so much. I have fostered several dogs over the past 5 years, but this is my first PM little guy! He's changing every day. The photo with the blue towel was his first day; the photo on the wood floor was day 5.
What a very sweet faced boy you have there!

He still looks somewhat haunted by his past. Almost like he is afraid its not real. The poor baby! Don't worry though, that will fade with time. Go easy on the hugs and kisses for now too. Let him approach you for affection. Best way to encourage it is by way of his stomach. Treats! Associate affection with yummy treats. It works the fastest and calms them. When petting him, use a very soft gentle hand and it will relax him too. Just be patient and work with him slowly. I don't think we could ever know the horrors he has faced in his life so far.

Thank you again for being part of the solution!
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:26 PM
 
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Two things are possible in addition to him pooing in the house and eating it before you see it. If he has been taking any medication he could be constipated. The second is a diet of turkey and rice doesn't have alot of fillers so he may not have much that he is passing through from the food. He is probably absorbing most of it. We feed raw food and there is definitely a lot less waste from that than a commercial dry diet.

We had a hoarder rescue who would poo and then immediately turn around and eat it. They didn't get any food in his previous home so any waste was fair game to eat. So we just started over feeding him. We generally feed the frozen raw diets, raw chicken necks and premium canned food. We did lots of training with food. He wasn't socialized so I would just throw tons of dry food (Ziwipeak) on the ground around me and sit very still while he ate it up so he got used to being around people. We used all the food to get him healthy and to get him to stop eating the poo. Eventually he stopped but it was only after he gained weight and came to trust the routine of when he gets fed. In the mean time I waited right beside him or saw him poo through the window and immediately went out to grab it. It also helped that we walked him twice per day and he often pooed at that time and I could grab it right away. However it did take some time before he realized that he would always have enough food with us. Most of the rescue dogs get a bit food desperate because the shelters only feed once per day so now we over feed with all the dogs when they come in. It helps them feel more secure and less anxious about where their next meal is coming from.

He still is the most happy dog at meal times that I've ever seen. He gets up on his back paws and waves his front paws in the air while bouncing around and drooling.
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